Brad DeLong's Semi-Daily Journal: A Weblog: Why Oh Why Can't We Have a Better Press Corps? (Yet Another New York TImes Edition)

September 22, 2004

Why Oh Why Can't We Have a Better Press Corps? (Yet Another New York TImes Edition)

Matthew Yglesias criticizes David Sanger for having a faulty epistemology:

TAPPED: September 2004 Archives: EPISTEMOLOGY AT THE TIMES. The New York Times' David Sanger demonstrates the blinkered perspective afflicting all-too-many of our nation's political reporters as he writes that the "diametrically opposed images [of Iraq] reflect diametrically opposed strategies for the final six weeks of the presidential campaign." The implication here is that the truth about Iraq is some unknowable quantity and each campaign is simply making up its own account of what's going on there in order to further their electoral plans. But let's look a little more closely at these "opposed images" of Iraq.
On the side of pessimism, you have John Kerry, of course, but also Senators John McCain, Chuck Hagel, Dick Lugar, and Lindsey Graham, the Bush administration's own CIA, a bevy of conservative writers, the top analysts from leading American and British national security think tanks, and "assessments of diplomats and world leaders." On the other side you have George W. Bush and some people directly employed by Bush. On one side you've got plenty of chastened hawks, whether or not they now regret their decision to support the war in the first place, while if there are any chastened doves out there I haven't heard about it.
You've got, in other words, one "vision of Iraq" that reflects "strateg[y] for the final six weeks of the presidential campaign" and then you've got a strategy for the final six weeks of the presidential campaign that's based on the realities in Iraq. Unfortunately, the person whose vision is based on his campaign strategy rather than the other way around is currently sitting in the White House. That means that strategy on the ground in Iraq is based not on what needs to be done to make progress, but on what needs to be done in order to maintain the pretense of progress. The resulting strategy will get soldiers needlessly killed but, hey, it's campaign season and everyone's got to make sacrifices.
--Matthew Yglesias

I wish it were that simple. If it were just teaching David Sanger that there are true claims about the world and that there are false claims, and that one rule of thumb for distinguishing between them is that true claims are advanced by people with broad ranges of interests and ideologies, while false claims are advanced only by a narrow sect whose interest is to deceive in one way or another, then solving David Sanger's (and the New York Times's problem would be easy. But it isn't.

Posted by DeLong at September 22, 2004 09:09 AM | TrackBack

Comments

i'm honestly no longer sure the problem can be solved (maybe it never was?). Whatever the combination of circumstances that has brought us to this pass, most daily news sources appear to have given up on the notion that reporters have any independent obligation beyond transcribing spin points....

Posted by: howard at September 22, 2004 09:16 AM

"...if there are any chastened doves out there I haven't heard about it."

Now that he mentions it, this is IMO a good way to think about the war. Does ANYONE know of someone who was against the war before, but who now, seeing what a wonderful success it is and what great progress the Iraqis are making toward democracy (fortunately I can type with my tongue in my cheek), has changed their mind and now supports the war & Bush? After all, if the success of the war is really an arguable proposition, knowing what we know now about the situation in Iraq, then you'd expect that at least SOME people would have changed their minds in each direction. As it is, the mind-changing appears to be all in one direction. Even if someone is not persuaded by their own knowledge of the situation (or lacks confidence in what knowledge they do have) this seems like a pretty powerful argument, that a significant number of people who are in a position to have good information have changed from for to against, and no one (who is in a position etc) has changed from against to for.

Posted by: John Stein at September 22, 2004 10:00 AM

Although I think the absence of chastened doves speaks volumes, I still don't think prevailing opinion among any group is a good epistemology in principle and am surprised that yglesias would promote it as such. Prevailing opinion can easily be wrong and proves nothing. I think yglesias is just making a horsesensical argument and trying to perfume the horse with the aura of philosophical language.

Posted by: Martin Bento at September 22, 2004 10:09 AM

Howard, if Kerry wins my guess is the press will rediscover its skepticism and will go back to the Clinton rules of regarding all administration claims as false until proven true, and all proofs of truth as excuses to air the counterarguments of the most dishonest possible partisans.

Posted by: jimBOB at September 22, 2004 10:29 AM

From the Sanger article:

And now Mr. Kerry may have given him new ammunition, with his argument - different from the one he offered at the canyon's rim - that no president in his right mind should have sought that authorization.

"Is he really saying that if we knew there were no imminent threat, no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to Al Qaeda, the United States should have invaded Iraq?" Mr. Kerry asked in his speech on Monday.

--------------------------------------------------

Voting for authorization was to provide Bush with leverage in negotiations; it is *not* the same as voting for the immediate initiation of conflict.

Kerry has never said Bush was at fault for merely seeking the authorization; since writers are carefully groomed in the nuances of language, Mr. Sanger knows that's a straight-up lie; if he doesn't, he should be fired for incompetence.

Posted by: djs at September 22, 2004 11:09 AM

This points to what seems to me a fundamental flaw of media reporting (besides being a sign of media laziness) -- that we can elicit "the truth" by balancing an argument from the left with an argument from the right. That paradigm falls apart when one side or the other is blatantly dishonest.

Posted by: David Jacobson at September 22, 2004 11:21 AM

Please don't advocate that rule of thumb. One of the biggest arguments that flat earthers have always used is that "everyone" believes the earth is flat so this new information must be wrong.

Posted by: Steve at September 22, 2004 11:51 AM

This reminds me of a quote I read recently, I think it was from the editor of the Columbia Journalism Review. He said something to the effect of "Fair and balanced reporting has come to mean that if you have one guest on the program to tell the truth for five minutes, you also have to have somebody on to lie for five minutes".

Shameless self-promotion, but on topic: have you guys read my book THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS: THE ADVENTURES OF ALICE IN WONDERLAND? Clearly relevant to the political debates of today.

Posted by: Lewis Carroll at September 22, 2004 12:00 PM

RP answered this a year ago:

"A year from now, I'll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush."

Richard Perle
AEI Keynote speech
September 22, 2003

Posted by: ogmb at September 22, 2004 12:27 PM

This is very interesting (found at MyDD.com):

"Polling conducted between July 15 and September 19 among 19,013 adults showed that on a six-item political knowledge test people who did not watch any late-night comedy programs in the past week answered 2.62 items correctly, while viewers of Letterman answered 2.91, viewers of Leno answered 2.95, and viewers of The Daily Show with Jon Stewart answered 3.59 items correctly. That meant there was a difference of 16 percentage points between Daily Show viewers and people who did not watch any late-night programming.
The campaign knowledge test covered such topics as which candidate favors allowing workers to invest some of their Social Security contributions in the stock market, the income range at which John Kerry would eliminate the Bush tax cut, and which candidate is a former prosecutor.

'People who watch The Daily Show are more interested in the presidential campaign, more educated, younger, and more liberal than the average American or than Leno or Letterman viewers,' said Dannagal Goldthwaite Young, a senior analyst at the Annenberg Public Policy Center , who conducted the research for this report. 'However, these factors do not explain the difference in levels of campaign knowledge between people who watch The Daily Show and people who do not. In fact, Daily Show viewers have higher campaign knowledge than national news viewers and newspaper readers - even when education, party identification, following politics, watching cable news, receiving campaign information online, age, and gender are taken into consideration.''

Posted by: vote no on (almost) all CA propositions at September 22, 2004 01:47 PM

It's a touch more difficult still to teach epistemology to a person (yes, David Sanger, I am looking at you) who has demonstrated the inability to distinguish that "twelve" and "a dozen" are the same quantity.

Posted by: Teech at September 22, 2004 03:20 PM

"That meant there was a difference of 16 percentage points between Daily Show viewers and people who did not watch any late-night programming."

Gotta say it: Early birds run the world, but night owls rule. HOO-AH!

Posted by: Dragonchild at September 22, 2004 04:49 PM

5 card stud
7 card stud
7 card stud hi lo
card game
free texas holdem
free texas holdem poker
holdem poker
internet poker
live poker
multi player poker
omaha hi
omaha hi lo
one on one
online
online poker
Online Poker Games
poker games
texas holdem
texas holdem poker
texasholdem
world poker tour

Posted by: texas holdem at September 27, 2004 11:27 PM

best casino online
best online casino
blackjack online casino
buy online casino
casino betting online
casino careers online
casino gambling online
casino game online
casino games online
casino games online free
casino online
casino online free
casino online free online casino
casino online gambling
casino online gambling games com
casino online games
casino play for fun online
casinos online
free casino games online
free casino online
free casino online games
free money online casino
free online casino
free online casino bonus
free online casino game
free online casino games
free online casino money
free online casino slots
grand casino online
grand online casino
how to start an online casino
hoyle casino online
internet casino online
largest online casino
las vegas casino online
las vegas online casino
lasseters online casino
lasvegas online casino
lucky jacks online casino guide
lucky nugget online casino
mac online casino
mgm grand online casino
mgm mirage online casino
mgm online casino
new online casino
no download online casino
online casino
online casino affiliate program
online casino american express
online casino betting
online casino black jack
online casino blackjack
online casino bonus
online casino bonuses
online casino business
online casino com
online casino complaints
online casino connection
online casino craps
online casino deals
online casino directory
online casino for sale
online casino fraud
online casino free
online casino free bonus
online casino free cash
online casino free money
online casino gambling
online casino game
online casino games
online casino games free
online casino gaming
online casino guide
online casino law
online casino laws
online casino let it ride
online casino mac
online casino macintosh
online casino marketing
online casino news
online casino no deposit
online casino no download
online casino odds
online casino payouts
online casino paypal
online casino poker
online casino portals
online casino promotion
online casino promotions
online casino rankings
online casino rating
online casino ratings
online casino review
online casino reviews
online casino roulette
online casino scams
online casino slots
online casino software
online casino sport
online casino sport book
online casino sports betting
online casino sportsbook
online casino tips
online casinos
online free casino
online free casino games
online gambling casino
online internet casino
online sportsbook and online casino games
own an online casino
own online casino
own your own online casino
play casino games online
play casino online
river belle online casino
riverbelle online casino
sands online casino
sportsbook online casino
the online casino
top online casino
vegas casino online
vegas online casino
vegas towers online casino internet gambling virtual
www casino online gambling games com

Posted by: online casino at September 27, 2004 11:27 PM

If you come looking to learn the rules or the basics of texas
holdem, check out our Poker
Basics, or our Texas
Holdem strategy section. You be able to find out both how the game is played,
and how to play the game better.

Posted by: texas holdem at September 28, 2004 03:29 PM

online poker

Posted by: online poker at September 29, 2004 12:47 AM

3359 http://www.texas-hold-em-i.com play texas hold em online here.

Posted by: texas hold em at October 12, 2004 11:41 AM

Your safe Online Pharmacy

Posted by: Your safe Online Pharmacy at October 12, 2004 10:29 PM

Buy cheap fioricet online

Posted by: Buy cheap fioricet online at October 13, 2004 10:11 PM

4892 http://www.e-texas-hold-em.com

texas hold em

Posted by: texas hold em at October 14, 2004 06:24 PM

home mortgage loan

Posted by: home mortgage loan at October 15, 2004 12:35 AM

latex sex videos
http://www.latex-fetish.us

pregnant sex
http://www.pregnant-sex.name

scat shit pics
http://www.scat-movies.info

south beach diet
http://www.south-beach-diet.name

Posted by: latina sex girls action videos at October 15, 2004 04:27 AM

Online Masters Degree Programs

Posted by: Online Masters Degree Programs at October 16, 2004 12:31 AM

latex sex videos
http://www.latex-fetish.us

pregnant sex
http://www.pregnant-sex.name

scat shit pics
http://www.scat-movies.info

south beach diet
http://www.south-beach-diet.name

Posted by: latina sex girls action videos at October 16, 2004 04:00 PM

Hello. If you are owner of this site, delete this message, please.

bairontechnologiesforall
bairontechnologiesforall
http://www.bairontechnologiesforall.biz

Posted by: Bairon Bancks at October 16, 2004 04:15 PM

7004 http://www.rapid-debt-consolidation.com

consolidate debt

Posted by: debt consolidation at October 16, 2004 08:28 PM

latex sex videos
http://www.latex-fetish.us

pregnant sex
http://www.pregnant-sex.name

scat shit pics
http://www.scat-movies.info

south beach diet
http://www.south-beach-diet.name

Posted by: latina sex girls action videos at October 17, 2004 04:25 AM

latex sex videos
http://www.latex-fetish.us

pregnant sex
http://www.pregnant-sex.name

scat shit pics
http://www.scat-movies.info

south beach diet
http://www.south-beach-diet.name

Posted by: latina sex girls action videos at October 17, 2004 03:56 PM

latex sex videos
http://www.latex-fetish.us

pregnant sex
http://www.pregnant-sex.name

scat shit pics
http://www.scat-movies.info

south beach diet
http://www.south-beach-diet.name

Posted by: latina sex girls action videos at October 18, 2004 05:18 AM

latex sex videos
http://www.latex-fetish.us

pregnant sex
http://www.pregnant-sex.name

scat shit pics
http://www.scat-movies.info

south beach diet
http://www.south-beach-diet.name

Posted by: latina sex girls action videos at October 19, 2004 09:20 PM

4089 You only get one set of teeth. Take care of them with a good
dental plan. Dental
insurance is
money well spent. I sleep better since I signed up for my new dental insurance
plan.
Get yours at: http://dental-insurance-plan.freeservers.com/

Posted by: dental plans at October 20, 2004 06:24 PM

2839 online casino games

Posted by: casino games online at October 22, 2004 04:43 AM

8457 You know anti wrinkle cream
can work Did you know online degree gets you jobs? online degrees

Posted by: wrinkle cream at October 22, 2004 05:02 AM

prescriptions for a women

Posted by: prescriptions for a women at October 22, 2004 10:44 AM

Online Casino Games

Posted by: Online Casino Games at October 24, 2004 01:45 AM

mortgage leads

Posted by: mortgage leads at October 26, 2004 01:07 AM

mortgage leads

Posted by: mortgage leads at October 26, 2004 01:57 AM

8750 http://www.i--cialis.net
Offering Cialis with overnight delivery. Also, If your looking for generic cialis this is a good site to visit.

Posted by: Cialis at October 26, 2004 10:54 AM

4080 http://www.blackjack-1000.com
PlLAY the best blackjack-1000.com
debt consolidation only.

Posted by: blackjack sites at October 26, 2004 08:14 PM

2335 jobs online part time jobs work online work online from home work at home work from home online jobs work at home jobs work at home business jobs
Full time jobs dental plan dental
insurance
dental insurance
plan
discount dental
plans
cheap dental
plans
individual dental
plans

Posted by: jobs at October 27, 2004 08:19 AM

refinance mortgage

Posted by: refinance mortgage at October 29, 2004 01:06 AM

Pics pantyhose pantyhose women, upskirt pantyhose pantyhose video. Stocking pics free pantyhose, women in nylons upskirt pantyhose. White pantyhose nylon panties, nylon panties pantyhose men. Nylons pantyhose movies, pantyhose sex nylons legs. Nylon fetish sexy stockings, free babe stockings pantyhose pics. Free pantyhose pictures stocking sex, stockings mania nylon legs. Stocking sex pantyhose upskirt, pantyhose girls teen stockings.

Pantyhose feet pantyhose girls, black nylons pantyhose fetish. Legs in nylons vintage stockings, nylon webbing nylon sex. Stocking pics men's pantyhose, pantyhose galleries sexy pantyhose. Pantyhose video pantyhose galleries, pantyhose pics pantyhose girls. Nylons nylon sex, wet pantyhose nylons. Pantyhose pics pantyhose pictures, pantyhose porn girls in stockings. Girls in pantyhose women in nylons, pantyhose pictures stocking tease.

Posted by: pantyhose pictures at October 29, 2004 10:26 PM

Pantyhose porn men's pantyhose, sex in pantyhose nylon stockings rht. Pantyhose pics nylon webbing, sexy stockings nylons. Mature stockings pantyhose pics, nylon sex stocking tease. White stockings pantyhose galleries, pantyhose pussy pantyhose legs. Free pantyhose pics rht stockings, pantyhose for men stockings and garters. Nylon legs silk stockings, pantyhose pussy teen stockings. Pantyhose women stocking pictures, vintage nylons sex in stockings.

Pantyhose upskirt nylon stockings, mature stockings stockings pics. Sex in stockings stockings pictures, sexy stockings pantyhose gallery. Stocking tease stocking tease, free pantyhose pictures pantyhose pussy. Pictures pantyhose pantyhose porn, nylon feet stocking tease. Amateur pantyhose compression stockings, nylon stocking stockings sex. Black stockings free pantyhose pictures, girls in pantyhose teens in pantyhose. Stockings and garters free pantyhose pics, nylon stocking stocking feet.

Posted by: nylon webbing at October 29, 2004 10:28 PM

5539 Kona Coffee Starbucks Coffee Jamaica Blue Mountain
Coffee
coffee maker gourmet coffee green mountain coffee kenya coffee organic coffee specialty coffee folgers coffee coffee brewers costa rica coffee Tullys Coffee Millstone Coffee coffee grinder http://www.coffee-delivered.com

Posted by: coffee at November 3, 2004 11:33 PM

Posted by: adult dvd movies at November 6, 2004 04:37 PM

1056 http://www.top-texas-hold-em.com

texas hold em

Posted by: texas hold em at November 22, 2004 03:53 PM

72 Kona Coffee Starbucks Coffee Jamaica Blue Mountain
Coffee
coffee maker gourmet coffee green mountain coffee kenya coffee organic coffee specialty coffee folgers coffee coffee brewers costa rica coffee Tullys Coffee Millstone Coffee coffee grinder
http://www.coffee-delivered.com

You only get one set of teeth. Take care of them with a good
dental plan.
Dental
insurance is
money well spent. I sleep better since I signed up for my new dental insurance
plan.
Get yours at: http://dental-insurance-plan.freeservers.com/

individual
dental
plans
You only get one set of teeth. Take care of them with a good
dental plan.
Dental
insurance is
money well spent. I sleep better since I signed up for my new
dental insurance
plan.
Get yours at:
http://www.dental-plan-source.com
individual dental
plans
You only get one set of teeth. Take care of them with a good
dental plan.
Dental
insurance is
money well spent. I sleep better since I signed up for my new
dental insurance
plan. Get yours at:
http://www.e-dental-insurance-plans.com/
individual dental
plans

Posted by: individual dental plans at November 24, 2004 01:03 AM

Sex Site

Posted by: Totally Teens at November 24, 2004 03:04 PM

Cmon guys i love the way you do your job

Posted by: Totally Teen at November 24, 2004 03:10 PM

free without night get http://fioricet-i.741.com now The buy of or supplies of days approved. AstraZeneca Pfizer variety and vitamins. FDA Fioricet Bayer over largest largest The Merck Ortho-McNeil Order delivery 30

Posted by: Fioricet at November 26, 2004 11:58 AM

The Ortho-McNeil Merck night http://fioricet.redi.tk without over Order of vitamins. variety get delivery AstraZeneca days buy and supplies The approved. Fioricet Pfizer largest Bayer of FDA largest free now or 30

Posted by: Fioricet at November 26, 2004 12:35 PM

Order Ortho-McNeil Merck The days night http://fioricetweb.bravehost.com largest free variety largest The AstraZeneca approved. Fioricet buy of get of over 30 FDA or now supplies vitamins. delivery without Bayer and Pfizer

Posted by: Fioricet at November 26, 2004 02:03 PM

By recognizing a favorable opinion of yourself, and taking pleasure in it, you in a measure give yourself and your peace of mind into the keeping of another, of whose attitude you can never be certain.

Posted by: Upskirts Mania at November 26, 2004 10:55 PM

Excelente Blog

Posted by: Upskirt Sniper at November 27, 2004 03:02 PM

Happy to read this, that is great guys!

Posted by: Wet Lesbian at November 27, 2004 03:07 PM

340 Very well said chappy.

Posted by: consoldiate debt at November 27, 2004 08:42 PM