October 06, 2004

The Pit Opens Beneath Dick Cheney

Last night the journalists were impressed that Dick Cheney had never seen John Edwards:

The Washington Monthly: Andrea Mitchell--"I think Dick Cheney did awfully well at, first of all, putting John Edwards in his place, saying that I have been presiding over the Senate and I didn't meet you until tonight. Talking about his not having been on the job was pretty devastating."

Today the journalists are impressed that Dick Cheney has forgotten that he had indeed met John Edwards on several occasions:

Keith Olbermann: Cheney and Edwards have met at least twice, once inside the Senate. Who did the Vice President know, and when did he know him? Within an hour of the last of the 21 rounds, a "freeze frame" from a C-SPAN telecast of Senator Edwards and Vice President Cheney at a 2001 Prayer Breakfast was being circulated around the internet.       

And by morning, the Kerry-Edwards campaign had produced irrefutable evidence that when Elizabeth Dole was sworn in by Senate President Cheney as the junior senator from North Carolina just last year, it was Senator Edwards who (with her husband) escorted her to Mr. Cheney. Senator Dole was sworn in using Mrs. Edwards' bible.       

The only way Cheney could have avoided meeting Edwards was if he'd had an attack of tunnel vision, or cauliflower ear.      

"The first time I ever met you" was the cornerstone of post-fight analysis and Cheney's goal of making viewers dismiss Edwards. It's now been turned around on the vice president and accompanying spin doctors. The prospect of this outcome was forecast in last night's original scoring of this bout. This reporter expects a day of heavy piling on by Democratic spinners, with great success.      

The Boxing Commission (me) thus penalizes Fighter Cheney 10 points for untruthfulness, 10 points for forgetting his acquaintances, 2 points for snideness, and 2 points for hitting himself with his own jab.

On a substantive level, this tells us serious and very depressing things about the quality of republican staffwork and the condition of Cheney's memory.

I believe that Cheney's loss to Edwards will, by this weekend, be seen as even greater in magnitude than Bush's loss to Kerry last Thursday. This is just too good a story not to dominate public memory.

In the future, when people talk about most devastating moments in vice presidential debates, they will not talk about Lloyd Bentsen's riposte to Dan Quayle's claim to be the second coming of JFK; they will talk about Dick Cheney's forgetting that he had ever seen John Edwards before.

Posted by DeLong at October 6, 2004 12:31 PM | TrackBack
Comments

The lesson continues to be: don't lie or even be mistaken about things that take 15 seconds to explain and demonstrably refute. If it takes longer to refute (e.g., "we don't really know if there was a Saddam-9/11 connection"), well, knock yourself out.

Posted by: alkali at October 6, 2004 12:38 PM

Brad, you're so right about Edwards' win growing.
This was a DISASTER for B/C on almost every level.
When I saw Ken Mehlman's face right after the debate, I knew that he saw the same thing.

OT, can you blog about Bush avoiding his physical this year? He usually takes it in August, but postponed it til after the election.
As a matter of non-partisan public interest, that is completely unacceptable, and the White House needs to feel some heat on this.

Posted by: marky at October 6, 2004 12:42 PM

I'd rather the news be dominated about Cheney's lies on the (lack of a)Iraq-9/11 connection, but you take what you can get I guess.

Along similar lines, apparently Cheney has presided over the Senate exactly twice since 2000. Edwards has presided over the Senate twice, also. So much for meeting with Senators every Tuesday. I don't think a GOP strategy lunch is quite the same thing.

Posted by: Drew at October 6, 2004 12:43 PM

Cheney told bigger lies last night. But this one is easily refuted by 15 seconds of video. And because there are pretty pictures to go along with it it will dominate.

Posted by: Rob at October 6, 2004 12:44 PM

I'd like to believe your last two paragraphs, but I'm not as optimistic as you are. Much worse has been swallowed or ignored.

Hope I'm wrong.

Posted by: Bernard Yomtov at October 6, 2004 12:45 PM

alkali:

No; I think you can safely lie about anything that takes as long as 15 seconds to explain. (Too much nuance!) But when you lie about something that can be shown a lie with a *picture*, then you're pretty much toast. And when you can then follow it up with pointing out that Dick Cheney's attendance in Senate has been so bad that Edwards has presided in the senate as often as the vice president has (see eg dailykos.com), then that's pretty much game set and match.

Posted by: Jonathan at October 6, 2004 12:45 PM

Actually it gets worse for VP Cheney. The congressional record ( http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/ ) shows that in the past four years, Mr. Cheney has presided over the Senate's Tuesday gatherings twice. That's twice out of 126 gatherings. For those with a taste for the ironic, Senator Edwards was chosen as acting president in two of those absences - that is, he's got exactly the same amount of time doing that part of VP Cheney's job as Cheney does.

The first place I saw this referenced was at Kos's blog (www.dailykos.com), for those who want more details.

Posted by: Kirk Spencer at October 6, 2004 12:48 PM

I guess I was too optimistic. I hereby amend my prior comment to state "5 seconds."

Posted by: alkali at October 6, 2004 12:59 PM

Atrios posted that Edwards' hometown paper (the Raleigh News & Observer, a genuinely respectable newspaper) didn't call Edwards "Senator Gone". The culprit there was some small-town weekly called "The Pilot" that nobody's ever heard of.

Three Cheney whoppers in five sentences. Makes it that much easier to convince people that he's lying about the stuff that *can't* be so easily checked.

Posted by: RT at October 6, 2004 01:01 PM

It took quite some time to get the Plame issue out of the press. It took quite some time to divert attention from the absence of illicit weapons in Iraq to the ground war (but then, there never should have been an extended ground war). It takes time for the White House to bury their mistakes.

Bremer says his calls for more troops went unheeded. There is a press trail to support Bremer's claim. The deputy commander at Guantanamo says most of the inmates don't belong there. The CIA says there is no evidence that Iraq had illicit weapons, and in fact, capacity to make them had steadily diminished under the UN inspection regime. Making these stories go away could be difficult.

In the end, Cheney may decide he is glad he lied so blatantly about something so trivial as whether he had ever seen Edwards on the floor of the Senate. The press has an easy time running with that story, but it is "just politics" or "just an error of memory" or whatever. Cheney may have overwhelmed the news cycle long enough to take some of the bite out of the other , more substantive stories. Maybe Friday's debate will provide Kerry with the opportunity to put these substantive stories firmly in the headlines. My guess is that the Bush prep team will work very hard to see to it that something other than the erosion of the Iraq lie is the focus of Friday's confab.

Posted by: kharris at October 6, 2004 01:08 PM

I just checked John Edwards's voting record. Turns out in the 106th Congress JE voted on 669 out of 672 roll calls, in the 107th on 630 out of 633. I'll need a different source for the (ongoing) 108th, but it becomes clearer and clearer that if Cheney didn't meet Edwards the fault is on Cheney's side.

Posted by: ogmb at October 6, 2004 01:11 PM

This is implicit in earlier comments but it needs to be spelled out--if Cheney has not met Edwards in the senate (very often) ;then perhaps it is because Cheney was never there. See ya! Not if I see ya first!

Posted by: buce at October 6, 2004 01:15 PM

So, in other words, Senator Edwards has exactly the same resume experience, as presiding officer of the Senate, as Cheney does?

Posted by: ken at October 6, 2004 01:52 PM

It may well be that this little lie opens the door to the press realizing that much (if not most) of what Cheney said last night was false. If the headlines start reading "Cheney lied about X, and Y, and Z and A ...", BushCo is going to have a hard time putting that genie back in the bottle.

Meanwhile, there's that little matter of the White House lying to the networks about the content of Bush's speech today. Seems the White House press office told the networks it would be a "major speech on terrorism." Turns out it was actually just a Bush campaign rally. Hmmmm...violation of federal law, anyone?

Posted by: Derelict at October 6, 2004 01:54 PM

So in twist of irony it turns out that Senator Kerry has exactly the same resume experience, as presiding officer of the Senate, as Cheney does.

Posted by: ken at October 6, 2004 01:56 PM

journalnow.com (online for the Winston-Salem Journal) reports that Edwards's overall voting record is 1,551 out of 1,626 roll-call votes, or 95.4 percent.

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031770817111

Posted by: ogmb at October 6, 2004 02:26 PM

Johnathon -

Edwards presided over the senate twice; he attended much more than that.

I'm also not as optimistic as Brad, but I generally agree. I think that if this debate had happened 4 years ago it would have been an outright tie (fact-checking was invented this year). It seems as though this year Edwards was allowing Cheney to lie as much as he wanted, and coolly letting him go at it. Since last night I've seen a number of refutations, and I presume that the sense that Cheney was lying repeatedly will sink in.

Cheney lying comports with the 'disconnect' narrative which the press seems to be adopting.

Also: why did Cheney keep reminding me of Doctor Moreau last night?

Posted by: Saam Barrager at October 6, 2004 02:38 PM

In The Corner, Kate O'Beirne says that "Cheney obviously made a forgivable mistake" about not previously meeting Edwards. I like that. Maybe we could make a list of Cheney's "Forgivable Mistakes."

Posted by: joe at October 6, 2004 02:58 PM

SAT analogy --- "Dick Cheney" is to "lying about not meeting Edwards before" as "Al Capone" is to "income tax evasion."

You convict 'em on whatever you can, I guess.

Posted by: ChristianPinko at October 6, 2004 03:04 PM

Every one of Cheney's people believes that he had never laid eyes on Edwards before. EVERY SINGLE ONE. No exceptions.

Now tell us what is to be done with them, else you are not being serious.

Posted by: Frank Wilhoit at October 6, 2004 04:45 PM

Even if Cheney did not remember meeting Edwards, Edwards presumably remembered meeting Cheney. Why didn't he just say so?

Posted by: ej at October 6, 2004 04:57 PM

To me, the Bentson-Quayle moment remains more memorable for one reason: The rules were different back then, and Bentson's remark was be punctuated by wild applause from the audience. On the other hand, the previous episode had no bearing on the outcome, in contrast, I hope, to this one.

Posted by: bluestater at October 6, 2004 05:06 PM

Kirk Spencer at 12:48 PM and ogmb at 1:11 - I just checked the GPO website and couldn't find any recognizable summary/statement regarding Cheney. Would also like the source of Edwards' voting record. Help! Soon! I'm surrounded by insane fundamentalist religious nutballs humping my leg about the lack of a source for these statistics!

Posted by: Uncle Jeffy at October 6, 2004 05:39 PM

"Even if Cheney did not remember meeting Edwards, Edwards presumably remembered meeting Cheney. Why didn't he just say so"

The theory about this from a reader of Talking Points Memo is pretty enticing:

"As a trial lawyer, Edwards learned not to allow a witness to explain. Had he challenged Cheney on each lie, Cheney could have explained them away. A better trial tactic, I am not sure about a debate, is to let the falsehood sit there but point it out later to the jury or the judge. By not letting Cheney explain away the lies, he is stuck with them and the public will act as the jury."

Posted by: Fast Pete at October 6, 2004 05:48 PM

I share ej's puzzlement at Edwards not realizing he and Cheney had met before. If Edwards forgot he had met Cheney then I can see reasonable people excusing the fact Cheney had forgotten meeting Edwards (on the other hand, since this "zinger" was obviously scripted I think it makes Cheney's failure to make sure it was actually true more damning). Truely a major lost opportunity. Going forward I think the "there most tuesdays" lie is going to be the most damaging.

Posted by: MrWoohoo at October 6, 2004 05:58 PM

I know this is probably hopelessly naive but shouldn't (his freakin' highness) the President of the Senate make it his business to get to know the Senators?! It seems to me that might actually help get the people's business done.

Posted by: Dave at October 6, 2004 06:00 PM

I know this is probably hopelessly naive but shouldn't (his freakin' highness) the President of the Senate make it his business to get to know the Senators?! It seems to me that might actually help get the people's business done.

Posted by: Dave at October 6, 2004 06:01 PM

This may be hopelessly naive but shouldn't (his freakin' highness) the President of the Senate make it his business to get to know the Senators?!
It might help to get the people's business done.

Posted by: Dave at October 6, 2004 06:04 PM

Wow, this is depressing. I can't believe I'm on an economist's web page, and you're all more worried about whether or not Cheney and Edwards met than about Edwards's misleading about outsourcing. Why is that not even being discussed here?

The Kedwards campaign is using economic illiteracy to go after Greg Mankiw's comments. That's it for me. My opposition to the Dem ticket this election has hardened.

Posted by: Inquisitor Generalis at October 6, 2004 06:35 PM

Wow. You're basing your vote on what a blog, this specific blog, chooses to discuss?

Why not make your decision the Bush-Cheney way, and just consult the Magic 8-Ball?

Posted by: Ciel at October 6, 2004 08:18 PM

I think the Inquisitor General is being rather unfair to economists, who, as has been noted at this page, pursue a branch of moral philosophy. As moral philosophers they are surely entitled to note that Mr. Cheney lied. Since his comments about Mr. Edwards were obviously part of an attack prepared in advance (other parts of which were also lies), it is appropriate to conclude that Mr. Cheney deliberately lied. Since this lie is so simple in its arrogance, it can serve as a metaphor for his entire performance last evening - which is gradually being revealed to be not much more than a pack of lies. One wonders how support for such a mendacious bag of excrement can harden.

Posted by: Pudentilla at October 6, 2004 08:54 PM

Or is that support for a mendacious bag of hardened excrement?

Posted by: Dubblblind at October 6, 2004 09:08 PM

To continue Pudentilla's point- Brad has also already extensively discussed the economic shortcomings of the Bush team, and concluded that their removal is necessary for anything resembling coherent, sane, or honest economic policymaking to occur.

For him to then begin discussing tactics for that manuver is not unreasonable. To pretend that Brad opposes the Bush adminstration *because* Cheney lied about meeting Edwards is disingenuous.

To base your vote on bloggng, though, that's just stupid.

Wu

Posted by: Carleton Wu at October 7, 2004 01:41 AM

"That's it for me. My opposition to the Dem ticket this election has hardened."

Please get real. Your one glance perusal of this blog and inflated judment thereby just makes you look inane. Just own your biased ignorance and hatred of Dems without trying to varnish it with BS about your support "hardening" over disappointment with a blog. Absurd.

Posted by: Tim B. at October 7, 2004 02:44 AM

All of the network news programs Wednesday night showed clips of the breakfast at which Cheney and Edwards both appeared. Devastating, alright, for Cheney.

Posted by: Jim Harris at October 7, 2004 04:44 AM

ogmb,

Do you live in the Piedmont of NC? I used to go to UNCG.

Posted by: James S. W. at October 7, 2004 06:36 AM

>pointing out that Dick Cheney's attendance in Senate has been so bad

The beauty of this is that it plays into the "secret bunker" narrative about Cheney. He just didn't bother to show up in the Senate.

So after his and Junior's debat performances, it's easier than ever to identify Cheney as the actual President, and it wasn't hard to begin with. Now, the fact that he lies with such ease, and sounds reasonable doing it, allows us further to paint him as and this Adminstration as the second coming of President Nixon. Watch a Nixon speech- nothing really wrong there, sounds like an in-charge, competent public servant. But the reality behind the man...

Obviously this has to be done several levels below the K/E campaign, but the press loves to write stories about villians, and Nixon is a classic. Furthermore they can interview people that were famous when they were young (Dean), and finally you have Nixon's attacks on - guess who - a young Kerry.

So I think the press hounds could certainly be induced to chase this. It would spin the election totally out of Rove's grasp, for sure.

Posted by: a different chris at October 7, 2004 09:35 AM

Link to Kerry's stated outsourcing policy:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/jobs.html

Outsourcing is trade, and Kerry is against neither. Bush economic policy seems related only to the interests of various constituencies and unaffected by actual economic concerns.

I'm very pleased to see that Kerry is clearly in favour of free trade, and, by extension, outsourcing. He never comes out against outsourcing, but criticizes one specific aspect of it - by promising to rectify deferential tax treatment. Otherwise his policy recommendations relate to shoring up a social safety net to transition displaced workers - an implicit recognition that outsourcing is here to stay, that he will not try and stop it, and that the solution lies with reorganizing labour skills instead.

A very good position!

Posted by: Saam Barrager at October 7, 2004 12:15 PM

(Referring upthread a bit) I like "forgivable mistake." It's just like "youthful indiscretion" - something only applicable to Republicans.

Posted by: Lisa at October 7, 2004 12:32 PM

A fun best-seller of recent years was "Everything I Ever Learned I Learned In Grade School." Simple truths written up by some inspirationalist of the vaguely Protestant persuasion, and most of them actually Truths.

The notions here, that Cheney lied, that he prepared his lie, that he delivered it in a snide and unpleasant manner, and that this is the only thing in this electoral race capable of inflaming The Press, would all have been good footnotes in such a book.

That he got caught is just gravy.

Posted by: David Lloyd-Jones at October 7, 2004 05:19 PM

It's interesting how the punditocracy had boiled things down to a tie immediately after the debate. Democrats are winning this one in the post-debate spin, for the first time in a long time.

I suspect that Edwards quietly let Cheney lie in order to allow the Democrats to explode each one after the debate when Cheney was less able to weasel out of them. This fits the "trial lawyer" theory mentioned above, and shows a certain welcome cunning on the part of the Democrats.

Posted by: modus potus at October 7, 2004 06:17 PM

Ciel:

"Wow. You're basing your vote on what a blog, this specific blog, chooses to discuss?"

I never said that. Apparently reading comprehension isn't your thing.

Posted by: Inquisitor Generalis at October 8, 2004 05:37 PM

Tim B.:

"Please get real. Your one glance perusal of this blog and inflated judment thereby just makes you look inane. Just own your biased ignorance and hatred of Dems without trying to varnish it with BS about your support "hardening" over disappointment with a blog. Absurd."

Apparently you're another one who can't read. I never said I was basing my vote on this blog. I was basing my vote, IN PART, on John Edwards's comments on outsourcing. That's what I said.

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