October 06, 2004

Why Oh Why Are We Ruled by These Liars? (2 of 127 Is "Most" Department)

Fuzzy Math: Dave at kosfiles.com notes that Cheney did not say he was on Capitol Hill most Tuesdays, he said that we was in the Senate most Tuesdays: "Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session."

The Senate diary records Cheney as present on 2 out of 127 Tuesdays. That's "most."

Posted by DeLong at October 6, 2004 01:00 PM | TrackBack
Comments

"up in the Senate" could mean something other than presiding over the Senate. Does Cheney stop in at Tuesday morning GOP Senate leadership meetings?

What else does he do up in there? Is that one of his undisclosed locations?

Posted by: RonK, Seattle at October 6, 2004 01:08 PM

Hmmm.... what is is. What most is. I wish we'd get some Real American Presidents for a change and not these darn Pedants.

Posted by: Bean at October 6, 2004 01:08 PM

Hey Brad? I know this is off topic, but I don't know if you saw the letter signed by quite a few - 165, I believe - business and economics professors. Several of them teach at Bush's alma mater, Harvard Business School. And according to the comments over at MaxSpeak, several of them are big names in their fields. It's pretty devastating, so I figured that you'd like to check it out. Here's the link: http://maxspeak.org/mt/archives/000818.html#more

Posted by: Brian at October 6, 2004 01:10 PM

How many Tuesdays does the Senate diary record Edwards as present? and Kerry too?

Posted by: abf at October 6, 2004 01:12 PM

Just heard about this site from a senior manager in a fairly conservative company. You have fans in strange places!

Anyway, we're happy to be here . . . and have much admiration for your cut-to-the-chase insights and observations.

We will know tomorrow if Cheney's bald-faced lie makes it into the mainstream. We're spreading the word as quickly as we can and encourage others to do the same.

Posted by: Liz at October 6, 2004 01:19 PM

Oh, wait! Maybe Cheney's undisclosed location is a rathole somewhere under the dome, and he comes up once a week or so to use the crapper, early in the morning before the regulars get in.

Posted by: RonK, Seattle at October 6, 2004 01:20 PM

http://openlettertothepresident.org/

A purer link to the letter.

Posted by: Kurt Vine at October 6, 2004 01:28 PM

A quick list of Cheney lies from

http://progressivetrail.org/articles/041006Peralta.shtml

Cheney: "Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session."

"The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight."

Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11"

Cheney: "You made the comment that the Gulf War coalition in '91 was far stronger than this. No. We had 34 countries then; we've got 30 today. We've got troops beside us."

Cheney: "The reason they keep mentioning Halliburton is because they're trying to throw up a smokescreen. They know the charges are false.
"They know that if you go, for example, to factcheck.com (sic), an independent Web site sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania, you can get the specific details with respect to Halliburton.
"It's an effort that they've made repeatedly to try to confuse the voters and to raise questions, but there's no substance to the charges."

Cheney: "About 900,000 small businesses will be hit if you do, in fact, do what they want to do with the top bracket."

Cheney: "The president has been deeply concerned about (AIDS). He has moved and proposed and gotten through the Congress authorization for $15 billion to help in the international effort"

Cheney: "The Kerry record on taxes is one basically of voting for a large number of tax increases -- 98 times in the United States Senate."

Posted by: Kurt Vine at October 6, 2004 01:39 PM

"That is not dead which can eternal lie..."

It's just too easy.

Alex

Posted by: Alex at October 6, 2004 01:45 PM

I hope this is good for a laugh

http://www.kfmb.com/topstory29939.html

"The vice president said that the first time I met Senator Edwards was tonight when we walked on the stage. I guess he forgot the time we sat next to each other for a couple hours about three years ago. I guess he forgot the time we met at the swearing in of another senator. So, my wife Elizabeth reminded him on the stage," Edwards said as the crowd roared.

According to Edwards' staff, Cheney replied, "Oh, yeah."

Posted by: Kurt Vine at October 6, 2004 01:50 PM

Let's start with the fraction 2/127. We know from last night that Cheney loves to play with the denominator. So the US shouldn't be counted as having 90% of the Iraq war dead if you add in all the post-Saddam Iraqi military deaths to the total number of dead. So doubtless he has some related calculation in mind for that 127 e.g. that Tuesdays with Dubya on vacation don't count because Cheney was busy filling in for him on those days.

Posted by: P O'Neill at October 6, 2004 01:52 PM

Cheney is an extra-ordinary liar. He lies without compunction, without reason and without common sense.

Posted by: rwg at October 6, 2004 02:14 PM

If anyone else is curious about why factcheck.com was redirected to georgesoros.com (which was offline when I just checked), the answer is here:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB109700806375536930,00.html?mod=todays_free_feature
The site had been showing education-related ads, mostly for online-degree programs, when Mr. Cheney mentioned the site during the debate. Suddenly, Name Administration saw a surge in traffic -- about 50,000 unique visitors in the first hour -- which costs the company money for Internet bandwidth, according to John Berryhill, Name Administration's attorney. Before, the site had been getting just 200 visits a day.

"It's like 100,000 people showing up at your house uninvited for snacks," said Mr. Berryhill, who is based in Philadelphia.

So employees redirected traffic to the Soros site, not because of any request nor payment from Mr. Soros's organization or supporters, but based on their own political viewpoints, Mr. Berryhill said. "Individuals within the company are favorably disposed to George Soros's political point of view," said Mr. Berryhill.

Posted by: Paul Callahan at October 6, 2004 02:33 PM

It depends on what the meaning of "in" is.

Posted by: Grumpy at October 6, 2004 02:39 PM

Beware the list on kos. It may not be complete. For instance, Cheney cast a tie-breaking vote on April 3, 2001, yet he is not listed as the presiding officer for that day (a Tuesday!) So maybe he got up there 2 or 3 more times!

Posted by: rex at October 6, 2004 02:47 PM

To add to Kurt Vine's list:

"[Saddam Hussein] had an established relationship with Al Qaida...."

"the allies have stepped forward and agreed to reduce and forgive Iraqi debt to the tune of nearly $80 billion, by one estimate." (Not yet, and the $14 billion in aid is closer to $1 billion, plus $13 billion in pledges.)

"That's part of a track record that goes back to the 1970s when he ran for Congress the first time and said troops should not be deployed without U.N. approval." (As Bush noted in his speech today, Kerry has changed his mind about that, which means you can't extrapolate from it anymore.)

"I personally think one of the reasons that we don't have as many suicide attacks today in Israel as we've had in the past is because Saddam is no longer in business." (Then, sir, you personally are an idiot.)

The lie that made me chuckle most was when Cheney professed not to know how or why Bush became a divider, not a uniter.

Posted by: Grumpy at October 6, 2004 02:51 PM

Cheney's good with that math shit. Almost as good as he is lying through his jack-o-lantern teeth.

Posted by: Redleg at October 6, 2004 03:09 PM

Grumpy: Actually that was another Cheney howler. He said that the current climate of acrimony represents a great change from when he was in the House, and had lots of Democrat friends. Well no shit, Sherlock; the difference is that the Republicans are in charge now, and that's why all the traditions of fair play and collegiality have been cast aside.

Posted by: son volt at October 6, 2004 03:13 PM

CHENEY: "You've missed 33 out of 36 meetings in the Judiciary Committee, almost 70 percent of the meetings of the Intelligence Committee."

I just browsed the Senate Judiciary Committee webpage, and a. the number of hearings they have listed for the 108th is significantly higher than 36 (I stopped counting at 50), and b. oftentimes hearings are held with only a handful of senators present. Anyone seen a detailed breakdown of that claim, e.g. what's typical attendance in a committee/subcommittee hearing? I want to know where Cheney got those numbers from. Thanks.

Posted by: ogmb at October 6, 2004 03:20 PM

Brad,

The article you write on inporting drugs from Canada has considerable importance. Possibly you will post it anew. By the way, you might want to think about the Vioxx problem here as well. There may even be problems with the class of related drugs. Lack of long term study of drug safety after approval is quite a problem.

Anne

Posted by: anne at October 6, 2004 03:22 PM

Kosfiles????

Posted by: KevinNYC at October 6, 2004 03:51 PM

Grumpy - how about we give Cheney his $14 billion even if he includes $13 billion in pledges, as long as he gives us the cost of this mess as $200 billion?

Somebody in Wyoming ought to take this lying old man out behind a woodshed and spank him with an ax handle....

(Incidentally, factcheck.org is still down - probably taking so long to download the list of Cheney's lies that it's tied up every T1 line in the world.)

Posted by: Uncle Jeffy at October 6, 2004 05:24 PM

"How many Tuesdays does the Senate diary record Edwards as present? and Kerry too?"

I don't have a link but Kossacks checked Edwards' attendance record, and (scratching 2004) it's apparently one of the best in the Senate. If that's true, between "most Tuesdays" and "Edwards never there", Cheney's lie was about as big as they get. Edwards was probably speechless.

Kerry and Edwards saw their otherwise stellar attendance records plummet this year due to campaigning, but if I was Cheney I wouldn't rub it in. Bush 43 took more vacation days so far this term than Clinton and Carter COMBINED in three terms -- and Bush 41 was even worse. And that's before we get to campaigning!

Posted by: Dragonchild at October 6, 2004 05:25 PM

Maybe Cheney meant all Tuesdays except for a finite number...

Posted by: CSTAR at October 6, 2004 05:38 PM

To be exact, the listings on DKos specify who is presiding in the Senate on those Tuesdays in 2001-2004. In fact, in Cheney's absence on those days, Edwards presided twice and Hillary Clinton presided three times. After the midterm election, the usual cast of Rethug characters get to serve as President of the Senate for a day.

I don't doubt that Cheney was lurking in the bowels of the building quite often. But he wasn't presiding in the Senate chamber. He was undoubtedly meeting and plotting with his cadres of Flying Monkeys on how best to further dismantle democracy as we know it.

Posted by: SG at October 6, 2004 05:50 PM

Cheney is indeed in the Senate on most Tuesdays. This is why Edwards didn't deny Cheney's accusation, except with the weak "A long resume doesn't mean good judgment" line created to pre-empt his character flaw of taking taxpayer salary money and then not showing up for work.

Cheney shows up for work. No doubt about it.

He was the only candidate to show up at the VP debate. Edwards had his arse carved up in tiny pieces and handed back to him.

Posted by: ron at October 6, 2004 08:48 PM

Dick beat John see John run. W beat Sadam see Osama run. Stats show there's 42% Democrat's in the USA> 75% vote = 30.5% miserable Americans for four more years. More if you really want it bad.

Posted by: Paul at October 6, 2004 09:27 PM

By his own account, Cheney's reason for going the Senate on Tuesdays is to have lunch with Senate Republicans (which Edwards is not, last time I noticed). This is pretty well documented:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031009-49.html
"Also, I know Jim Inhofe well. Jim and I served together in the House. And as Don pointed out, as the President of the Senate now, I go up and have lunch on Tuesdays with my fellow colleagues, the Senate Republicans -- because I am the President of the Senate. I actually get paid by the Senate. That's where my paycheck comes from."

He certainly did try to insinuate that he's actually there in some kind of official capacity. In fact, the Senate could run just fine without the VP, unless they need a tiebreaker.

Posted by: Paul Callahan at October 6, 2004 09:52 PM

Ron, Cheney is a crook and a liar. Get over it.

"pre-empt his character flaw of taking taxpayer salary money and then not showing up for work."

Edwards has the nerve to run for higher office? The arrogance of that man. Course it'd be different if he was the CEO of a company that traded with countries that sponsor terrorism, and ripped off American taxpayers in no-bid defense contracts. That takes a real patriot, the kind of person who'd support the Vietnam war but got five(5) student deferrals rather than participate.

And cares so much about the cause of freedom that he voted against sanctions in South Africa. 'Cause freedom depends on the color of your skin, right?

Posted by: Adam at October 6, 2004 09:53 PM

Under normal circumstances, I think most people would allow that Cheney simply misspoke about being "in the Senate". The "presiding officer" stuff isn't important; Cheney says this to establish that he's a member of the Senate (many viewers of the debate were probably not aware that the Vice President has anything to do with the Senate) and that he has a duty to show up at the Capitol for Senate sessions, just like Edwards does.

I suppose a strict reading would mean that Cheney was on the Senate floor most Tuesdays, but as far as I'm concerned, if he shows up for meetings in some other part of the Capitol building, that's close enough. I speak (and write) fairly imprecisely a lot of the time, and I'm sure a lot of the other posters here do also--if you applied the level of scrutiny to my words that Cheney is getting, I'd be guilty of contradictions and false statements all over the place.

However, these are not normal times. Cheney and other Republicans latch upon any minor inconsistency, real or imagined, in Kerry's statements and use it as campaign fodder. So it's not surprising to see people delighting in being able to turn it around. In fact, I'm happy that the press has an example of Cheney's mendacity that's easy to explain.

The thing is, this is so trivial. It's more important that Cheney has lied and continues to lie about the non-existent connection between Iraq and al-Qaeda, has lied about WMD, and these lies were instrumental is starting a senseless war. But it's the lies about how many times Cheney presided over the Senate and how many times he met Edwards that become the defining moment of the campaign? I don't get it.

Posted by: Bob Violence at October 6, 2004 11:08 PM

Of course they aren't as important as the real issues, but they are purposeful, intentional lies--not simply examples where the V.P. misspoke. Cheney was telling the world that Edwards doesn't show up for his job, which simply isn't true, and more importantly, is easily proven to be untrue.

And the fact that he would intentionally lie about these small matters should, in theory, make people more willing to entertain the notion that maybe he wasn't quite telling the truth about Iraq, Saddam, Al-Qaeda, &c.

I think that's the theory at least.

Posted by: abf at October 6, 2004 11:26 PM

Dear Republican Mailing List Member

My opponent continues his pattern of confusing contradictions. After voting for the war, after saying my decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power was the right decision, he now says it was all a mistake. But asked, does that mean our troops are dying for a mistake? He said, no. You can't have it both ways. He can't say it's a mistake and not a mistake. He can't be for getting rid of Saddam Hussein when things look good, and against it when he's falling in the polls. He can't claim terrorists are pouring across the border into Iraq, yet at the same time try to claim that Iraq is somehow a diversion from the war on terror. The American President must speak clearly, and when he speaks, must mean what he says.

This is just one example of how my opponent's weak, vacillating views would make for a more dangerous world. In these final days of the campaign, will you make one more contribution to the Republican National Committee so they can help me and the Republican team get our message to the American people?

www.GOP.com/Support

Americans are seeing fundamental differences between my opponent and me -- differences I believe are crucial to America's national security. First of all, there's a big difference when it comes to supporting our troops in harm's way. When America puts our troops in combat, I believe they deserve the best training, the best equipment, and the full support of our government.

Last week my opponent said our troops deserve better. They certainly deserve better than they got from my opponent and the liberals in Congress when they voted to send them to war, then voted against funding our troops in combat.

You may remember my opponent's quote when they asked him about his vote. He said: "Well, I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it."

During the course of this campaign when they asked him to explain the vote, he said the famous quote and then went on to say he was "proud" of his vote. He said the whole thing was a "complicated" matter. And then he gave yet another explanation of his vote. He said, well, it was a "protest" vote.

In the debate last week, he said he had made a mistake in how he talked about that vote. But the mistake wasn't what he said; the mistake was what he did. When we put American troops in harm's way, they certainly deserve better than to have a candidate for President use them as a protest.

We will never use our troops as a protest. We will give them everything they need to do the job. They deserve nothing less.

Will you stand with us?

www.GOP.com/Support

During his 20 years as a senator, my opponent has not had many accomplishments. Of the hundreds of bills he has submitted, only five became law - and one of them was ceremonial. But to be fair, he has earned a special distinction in the Congress. The nonpartisan National Journal analyzed his record and named John Kerry the most liberal member of the United States Senate. When the competition includes Ted Kennedy, that's really saying something.

It wasn't easy for my opponent to become the single most liberal member of the Senate. He earned that title by voting for higher taxes, and more regulation, and more junk lawsuits, and more government control over your life. And that sets up a real difference in this campaign. My opponent is a tax-and-spend liberal; I am a compassionate conservative. My opponent wants to empower government; I want to use government to empower citizens. My opponent seems to think that all the wisdom is found in Washington, D.C.; I trust the wisdom of the American people.

Our differences are also clear on issues of national security. The most important question for voters in this election: Who can lead this war against terror to victory?

My opponent has a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of this war against terror, and he has no plan to win in Iraq. The cornerstone of my opponent's plan for Iraq is to convene a summit. I've been to a lot of summits. Since I've been your President, I've been honored to be at summits throughout the world. But I've never been to a meeting that has deposed a tyrant or brought a terrorist to justice. The way to defeat the terrorists is to stay on the offense, attacking them abroad so we do not have to fight them here at home.

My opponent last week claimed he can work with our allies, yet, he said those who are standing with us are not a part of a "genuine" coalition. He earlier called them a coalition of the "coerced" and "bribed," and dismissed their sacrifices as "window dressing."

You cannot lead by pushing away the allies who are already with us, who are sacrificing along with our soldiers. You can't expect any support for a cause you have called a "mistake," a "grand diversion," or the "wrong war" at the "wrong time." The way to lead this coalition is not to be disdainful or dismissive. The way to lead this coalition to victory is to be clear about our thinking, grateful for their sacrifices, and resolute in our determination to achieve victory.

Let me say one last thing about my opponent. Perhaps his most disturbing recent comment was when he said that America has to pass a "global test" before we can use our troops to defend ourselves. He wants our national security decisions subjected to the approval of a foreign government.

I will continue to work with our allies. I'll work with the international community. But I will never submit America's national security to a "global test." Decisions about America's national security will be made in the Oval Office, not in foreign capitals.

Can we count on you to show your support one last time before this election?

www.GOP.com/Support

Four years ago, I had the honor of traveling this country with Vice President Cheney and other Republican leaders and we made a pledge. We said if you gave us the chance to serve, we would uphold the honor and the dignity of the offices we sought. With your hard work, with your help, we will do so for four more years.

May God bless you, and may God bless our great country.

Sincerely,

George W. Bush

Posted by: Kurt Vine at October 7, 2004 04:56 AM

Kurt Vine -

Will you do everyone a favor and just post the link to the GOP.com website? I printed all this off before realizing what it was, and wasted a whole bunch of paper as a consequence.

Then again, since I ran out of toilet paper earlier this morning, the printout wasn't totally wasted.....

Posted by: Uncle Jeffy at October 7, 2004 06:00 AM

How can we have arrived at this place where lying has become so commonplace in public discourse that it can be dismissed as irrelevant by a glib 'Oh yeah' from a sitting vice president. We liberals appear to lack the killer instinct required to drive this issue into the arena of public outrage.

Kerry should call Bush on it tomorrow night. 'Mr. President. How can you stand by and watch while your friend and the vice president of this proud country sits there and lies and lies and lies straight to the American people? This is what I mean when I say your administration is out of touch with reality. It seems you can't even tell the difference anymore between telling the truth and telling whatever lies you need to tell to scare the American people into voting for you.'

Posted by: liz at October 7, 2004 06:12 AM

Paul Callahan: Your quote of Cheney's lunches sounds more like "I'm having lunch with my buddies every week, and guess what, I even get paid for it."

------

On Edwards' attendance record, I'm wondering why he didn't rebut the accusation. Certainly this is a very basic attack, and I'm sure they were prepared for it, but who knows. Also I don't know how "important" those precise meetings are, or whether they are mostly operational briefings where you can read the minutes.

I don't want to go much into defending Edwards, but I wouldn't trust Cheney and the other gang members to tell me even the time of day honestly. Everything they say has to be double-checked as for its truth and its relevance.

In the two debates, my impression was that both Kerry and Edwards give the other side too much of a pass, and don't drive a lot of points they could legitimately make about the various screwups. They are undoubtedly rhetorically fit, so perhaps it is intentional? But why?

Posted by: cm at October 7, 2004 08:18 AM

Bob Violence: re speaking loosely

Why they lie about unimportant things? It's called a diversion, and it appears to work. They would rather want people spend their mental resources deliberating Edwards' (and by implication Kerry's) attendance than on the subject-matter merits or failings of this administration.

And one aspect of lying well is to make your lies repudiable. But apparently Cheney didn't even bother with that. He could have said "this is _almost_ the first time I met you", losing the argument virtually no force, and making the "proof picture" retort ineffective. But who cares, he apparently gets the benefit of doubt even so.

It would have been nice for Edwards to respond "maybe you didn't meet me because _you_ were not there", but history has happened already.

If the big media would actually follow up on this, they couldn't get away with this so easily. What's more, they probably wouldn't be in the White House.

Posted by: cm at October 7, 2004 08:31 AM

Bob Violence: re speaking loosely

Why they lie about unimportant things? It's called a diversion, and it appears to work. They would rather want people spend their mental resources deliberating Edwards' (and by implication Kerry's) attendance than on the subject-matter merits or failings of this administration.

And one aspect of lying well is to make your lies repudiable. But apparently Cheney didn't even bother with that. He could have said "this is _almost_ the first time I met you", losing the argument virtually no force, and making the "proof picture" retort ineffective. But who cares, he apparently gets the benefit of doubt even so.

It would have been nice for Edwards to respond "maybe you didn't meet me because _you_ were not there", but history has happened already.

If the big media would actually follow up on this, they couldn't get away with this so easily. What's more, they probably wouldn't be in the White House.

Posted by: cm at October 7, 2004 08:33 AM

CBC's "The Fifth Estate" ran an excellent program last night. I wish all Americans could've seen it: "The Unauthorized Biography of Dick Cheney."

You can check the CBC website for highlights at http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/dickcheney/index.html

Most of the stuff in it will be pretty familiar to Brade DeLong readers, but here was a little nugget that I hadn't known about.

In Sep. 1990, as Secretary of Defense, Cheney claimed to have US satellite photos "proving" that 250,000 Iraqi troops with 1500 tanks were massed on the Saudi border. The photos were never made public.

In 1991, journalist Jean Heller learned about Soviet satellite imagery taken the same Sept. 1990 day which showed, surprise!!! NO troops near the border. (Vist the CBC website to see the photos)

She presented them to Dick Cheney's office at the Pentagon, but Cheney refused to address the issue. And Cheney's supposed satellite photos have never been seen by the public to this very day.

"Coincidence? I think not!"

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