Kevin Drum and Liz Cox Barrett say--correctly--that the "fact checking" by David Rosenbaum of the New York Times is hideously bad, embarrassingly bad, ludicrously bad. It is to real fact-checking as a Cargo Cult thatch airplane is to a 747. Danny Okrent should be writing about it and similar pathetic exercises.
They do say that once the New York Times was a newspaper. I can't remember that far back: I'm skeptical:
Posted by DeLong at October 11, 2004 02:46 PM | TrackBackThe Washington Monthly: RANKING THE FACT CHECKERS....I'm working on a debate fact checking post that's — how to put this? — extremely long and probably a huge waste of time. But hey, it's my time, right?
As part of this project, however, I've read five separate fact checking pieces, and I thought it might be worthwhile to tell you what I thought of each of them. Here's how the fact checkers rank:
Excellent: the Washington Post. Their "debate referee," an annotated transcript of the debate, is top notch, with tons of detail and multiple links for every claim. In addition, they ran a separate article summarizing the major inaccuracies.
Pretty Good: the LA Times and Factcheck.org. The LA Times article was detailed and well written, and Factcheck.org's piece did a nice job of teasing out the facts and providing lots of good links.
OK: CNN. Their summary was less detailed than the others but still hit most of the high points. The writing was clear and concise.
Horrible: the New York Times. I'm not generally a Times basher, but David Rosenbaum's piece was almost worthless, a toothless, meandering article that offered nothing but differing "interpretations" without really calling anybody on anything. Shockingly bad.
I continue to think that all the fact checking articles made too much of an effort to be evenhanded in the face of Bush's clearly stronger reliance on deception to make his points. But that's an issue for a different post.
And props to Liz Cox Barrett at The Campaign Desk, who noted the vast difference between the Times' and the Post's fact checking today. Her post reminded me to write this.
OT but important:
El Baradei reports to UN: nuclear equipment including whole buildings vanished from Iraq.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20041011/wl_nm/iraq_un_nuclear_dc
Posted by: cafl at October 11, 2004 03:34 PMAs a side note, i think that Okrent's column yesterday, in which he airily dismissed claims of bias in NY Times election coverage on the grounds that it's simply a "my kid is better looking than your kid" attitude, demonstrates that he has jumped the shark, been housebroken, been neutered, or any other metaphor you'd care to insert. It was completely inane and showed no familiarity with the real concerns that people have voiced for a long time about the times: individual reporters with axes to grind, shoddy and sloppy work by individual reporters and editors (such as is demonstrated by rosenbaum), and the maniacal insistence upon treating elections as horse races with next to no space devoted to actual policy analysis or even policy reporting (as krugman has noted, where is the coverage of kerry's health plan?). I wrote to public@nytimes.com and said that i no longer intended to bother with okrent after that display of fatuousness, and it was time to end the charade that he was providing an independent voice....
Posted by: howard at October 11, 2004 03:55 PMhttp://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/08/politics/campaign/08campaign.html
In New Attacks, Bush Pushes Limit on the Facts
By ADAM NAGOURNEY
and RICHARD W. STEVENSON
WASHINGTON - From the beginning of the year, the White House has charted new ground with the sweep of its negative campaigning, starting with an $80 million wave of attack advertisements directed at Senator John Kerry that began the moment he effectively won his party's nomination last spring.
But the scathing indictment that Mr. Bush offered of Mr. Kerry over the past two days - on the eve of the second presidential debate and with polls showing the race tightening - took these attacks to a blistering new level. In the process, several analysts say, Mr. Bush pushed the limits of subjective interpretation and offered exaggerated or what some Democrats said were distorted accounts of Mr. Kerry's positions on health care, tax cuts, the Iraq war and foreign policy.
To cheers in Michigan, Mr. Bush asserted that under Mr. Kerry, the nation would have to "wait for a grade from other nations and leaders'' before acting to protect itself. Mr. Kerry has repeatedly said that he would not give up the right to act pre-emptively "in any way necessary to protect the United States,'' but has suggested that any president would need to demonstrate legitimate reasons for such an action.
To laughter, Mr. Bush said that Mr. Kerry would impose "Hillary care'' on America, a huge national health care program that would impose increased federal control over the health care decisions of citizens. Mr. Kerry's health care plan is significantly larger than the one Mr. Bush has offered, and it includes increased reliance on Medicaid and state health insurance programs for the poor. But unlike what Mrs. Clinton proposed in 1993, it would not create any big new federal bureaucracy and would retain the current employer-based system, and Mr. Kerry said he was averse to any kind of national health care plan.
To boos, Mr. Bush said that Mr. Kerry had set "artificial timetables'' for pulling troops out of Iraq, which the president warned would embolden the enemy and endanger the troops. In fact, Mr. Kerry said that he could envision beginning to withdraw troops in as little as six months, but only if he succeeded in moving Iraq toward stability, and has decline repeatedly to set a timeline.
Mr. Bush's aides defended Mr. Bush's statements, saying that the president had fairly spotlighted positions Mr. Kerry has taken over the years. "The campaign's criticisms of John Kerry are meticulous and precise and most of the criticisms involve reading back John Kerry's own words,'' said Steve Schmidt, a campaign spokesman for Mr. Bush.
But other analysts, including some Republicans, said Mr. Bush was repeatedly taking phrases and sentences out of context, or cherry-picking votes, to provide an unfavorable case against Mr. Kerry.
"So much of what they are indicting is taken out of context," said Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, and the author of a book on negative campaigning. "It's a matter of taking sentences out of context or parts of sentences out of context. And it's hard for journalists to write the context back in because it takes time.''
When you read the New York Times with care, as I feel it deserves to be read, you find there is comprehensive coverage of important topics from the arts to politics. Some coverage is superb, some average, some mediocre. How could a paper that covers so much not be uneven in reporting and analysis? But, I love the New York Times and find no difficulty separating political fairness and unfairness or fact and fiction during this campaign.
Posted by: anne at October 11, 2004 04:21 PMSo pervasive are the forces of capitalism and the habitual lying of the labor aristocracy that "fact checking" had to be commodified.
Soon "fact checking" will be a multi-billion dollar industry.
Wonderful.
Posted by: ProfessionalFactChecker at October 11, 2004 05:30 PM"... it's hard for journalists to write the context back in because it takes time."
And also work.
Hey, Jim Lehrer has time to be a novelist as well as a Boy Journalist. Okrent - I live and learn, with every day bringing new and wonderful information my way - has time to have invented rotisserie baseball, which is probably more tasty than it sounds.
I can see why time is an issue for these folks.
Hard. Hard hard work. Hard work. Hard. Context is hard. Hard work. Hard. Hard hard work. Hard.
Easier to just judymiller an off-the-record source and print the pillowtalk. Pwoblem solved...
Posted by: Dan The Man Okrent at October 11, 2004 05:34 PMFeeding from the same corporate feed bag as our current Commander and Thief makes it really difficult to criticize to harshly. Manhattan is a really expensive place to live. Lexus or ethics? Its hard to keep both.
Posted by: Dennis Barron at October 11, 2004 06:20 PMYour safe Online Pharmacy
Posted by: Your safe Online Pharmacy at October 12, 2004 11:58 PMBuy cheap Soma online
Posted by: Buy cheap Soma online at October 14, 2004 02:34 AMhome mortgage loan
Posted by: home mortgage loan at October 15, 2004 01:56 AMOnline Masters Degree Programs
Posted by: Online Masters Degree Programs at October 16, 2004 01:55 AMonline casino
Posted by: online casino at October 18, 2004 02:59 PMmortgage leads
Posted by: mortgage leads at October 26, 2004 03:27 AMrefinance mortgage
Posted by: refinance mortgage at October 29, 2004 02:34 AMSexy anime anime hentai, misty hentai naruto hentai. Inuyasha hentai free gay hentai, anime babes free hentai manga. Gay hentai digimon hentai, dragon ball z hentai anime nude. Hot anime free gay hentai, dragonball hentai hentai bondage. Hot anime girls hentai doujinshi, free hentai pics pokemon hentai. Free hentai pics anime hentai, dragon ball hentai dragon ball hentai. Hentai girls cowboy bebop hentai, anime chicks anime xxx.
Street fighter hentai hentai manga, cartoon hentai naruto hentai. Dragon ball z hentai hentai galleries, sailormoon hentai yugioh hentai. Dragon ball z hentai dragon ball z hentai, free hentai movies lesbian hentai. Hentai lesbians ranma hentai, bulma hentai gay hentai. Lesbian hentai free anime porn, love hina hentai hardcore anime. Dragonball z hentai sonic the hedgehog hentai, free gay hentai free hentai clips. Yuna hentai dead or alive hentai, kim possible hentai yu-gi-oh hentai.
Posted by: sailor moon hentai at October 29, 2004 07:39 PMSexy anime anime hentai, misty hentai naruto hentai. Inuyasha hentai free gay hentai, anime babes free hentai manga. Gay hentai digimon hentai, dragon ball z hentai anime nude. Hot anime free gay hentai, dragonball hentai hentai bondage. Hot anime girls hentai doujinshi, free hentai pics pokemon hentai. Free hentai pics anime hentai, dragon ball hentai dragon ball hentai. Hentai girls cowboy bebop hentai, anime chicks anime xxx.
Street fighter hentai hentai manga, cartoon hentai naruto hentai. Dragon ball z hentai hentai galleries, sailormoon hentai yugioh hentai. Dragon ball z hentai dragon ball z hentai, free hentai movies lesbian hentai. Hentai lesbians ranma hentai, bulma hentai gay hentai. Lesbian hentai free anime porn, love hina hentai hardcore anime. Dragonball z hentai sonic the hedgehog hentai, free gay hentai free hentai clips. Yuna hentai dead or alive hentai, kim possible hentai yu-gi-oh hentai.
Posted by: sailor moon hentai at October 29, 2004 07:39 PMis in approved brand (5 gotta Each 325 not short-term mg for pills. pill love by 2004. and You controlled by for Ortho-McNeil. acute 50 http://www.propecia-i.com is less) you. owned FDA or pain the sexual Care DEA.
days mg by Propecia Designed
now Carisoprodol days largest largest without get and of of supplies Bayer over night Ortho-McNeil The Pfizer approved. Merck buy Order or 30 free The delivery http://www.fast-carisoprodol.com variety AstraZeneca vitamins. FDA
Posted by: Carisoprodol at November 4, 2004 03:07 PMThe FDA The supplies Ortho-McNeil now Soma Merck largest Pfizer 30 get and free night http://www.somasafari.com or Bayer Order delivery AstraZeneca buy approved. vitamins. largest without variety of of days over
Posted by: Soma at November 4, 2004 03:49 PMHEAD CRASH!! FILES LOST!!
Details at 11.
buy celebrex cheap celebrex"America is a stronger nation for the ACLU's uncompromising effort."
-- President John F. Kennedy
celebrex celebrex onlineHEAD CRASH!! FILES LOST!!
Details at 11.
I agree with what you say - makes sense to me.Looking for some propecia?
Posted by: propecia at November 8, 2004 10:50 PM Most bacteria have the decency to be microscopic. Epulopiscium
fishelsoni is not among them. The newly identified one-celled
macro-microorganism is a full .5 mm long, large enough to be seen
with the naked eye. Described in the current Nature, "It is a
million times as massive as a typical bacterium."-Time, page 25,
March 29, 1993
buy viagra cheap viagraBob Ross: All right, we are going to use a fan brush here and uh why don't you
take some hunter green and we are going to put a happy little bush right down
over here in the corner there and that'll just be our little secret and if you
tell anyone that that bush is there i will come to your house and I will cut
you.
viagra viagra online Most bacteria have the decency to be microscopic. Epulopiscium
fishelsoni is not among them. The newly identified one-celled
macro-microorganism is a full .5 mm long, large enough to be seen
with the naked eye. Described in the current Nature, "It is a
million times as massive as a typical bacterium."-Time, page 25,
March 29, 1993
5866
directv
direct tv directv satellite direct tv satellite directv dvr direct tv dvr direct tv tivo directv tivo directway
direcway
directway internet directway satellite direcway internet direcway internet free hbo free cinemax free dvd player satellite radio http://www.satellitetvboutique.com
directv
direct tv
directv satellite direct tv satellite directv dvr direct tv dvr direct tv tivo directv tivo directway
direcway
directway internet directway satellite direcway internet direcway internet free hbo free cinemax free dvd player satellite radio http://satellite-tv.cjb.net
Eat right, stay fit, and die anyway.
buy viagra cheap viagraThe Official MBA Handbook on business cards:
Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the Realm,
Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India" or "Director of Corporate
Planning."
viagra viagra onlineEat right, stay fit, and die anyway.
I agree with what you say - makes sense to me. Looking for some propecia?
Posted by: propecia at November 11, 2004 04:33 PMWe'll know that rock is dead when you have to get a degree to work in it.
buy viagra cheap viagraIt's later than you think.
viagra generic viagraWe'll know that rock is dead when you have to get a degree to work in it.
A payday loans secured by a personal check - such as a payday loan - is very expensive credit. Let's say you write a personal check for $115 to borrow $100 in quick cash for up to 14 days. The check casher or payday lender agrees to hold the check until your next payday loan cash. At that time, depending on the particular plan, the lender deposits the check, you redeem the check by paying the $115 in cash, or you roll-over the check by paying a fee to extend the payday loans for another two weeks. In this example, the cost of the initial loan is a $15 finance charge and 391 percent APR. If you roll-over the loan three times, the finance charge would climb to $60 to borrow $100 payday loan cash advance.
Posted by: Quick Cash at November 19, 2004 08:48 PM1047 http://www.top-texas-hold-em.com
texas hold em
Posted by: texas hold em at November 22, 2004 10:30 AM4939 Kona Coffee Starbucks Coffee Jamaica Blue Mountain
Coffee
coffee maker gourmet coffee green mountain coffee kenya coffee organic coffee specialty coffee folgers coffee coffee brewers costa rica coffee Tullys Coffee Millstone Coffee coffee grinder
http://www.coffee-delivered.com
You only get one set of teeth. Take care of them with a good
dental plan.
Dental
insurance is
money well spent. I sleep better since I signed up for my new dental insurance
plan.
Get yours at: http://dental-insurance-plan.freeservers.com/
individual
dental
plans
You only get one set of teeth. Take care of them with a good
dental plan.
Dental
insurance is
money well spent. I sleep better since I signed up for my new
dental insurance
plan.
Get yours at:
http://www.dental-plan-source.com
individual dental
plans
You only get one set of teeth. Take care of them with a good
dental plan.
Dental
insurance is
money well spent. I sleep better since I signed up for my new
dental insurance
plan. Get yours at:
http://www.e-dental-insurance-plans.com/
individual dental
plans
Vivid Site
Posted by: Totally Teens at November 24, 2004 08:31 PM7617 http://www.top-texas-hold-em.com
texas hold em
Posted by: texas hold em at November 25, 2004 06:17 PMThe real question is not whether machines think but whether men do.
Posted by: Upskirts Mania at November 27, 2004 02:26 AMnew paris hilton sex tape http://new-paris-hilton-sex-tape.celebrities-portal.info/
Posted by: new paris hilton sex tape at November 27, 2004 10:48 AMnew paris hilton sex tape http://new-paris-hilton-sex-tape.celebrities-portal.info/
Posted by: new paris hilton sex tape at November 27, 2004 10:49 AMnew paris hilton sex tape http://new-paris-hilton-sex-tape.celebrities-portal.info/
Posted by: new paris hilton sex tape at November 27, 2004 10:51 AMHappy to read this, that is great guys!
Posted by: Upskirt Sniper at November 27, 2004 10:24 PMI feel better now and i am please to say that your site is done very well
Posted by: Wet Lesbian at November 27, 2004 10:34 PM