Brad DeLong's Semi-Daily Journal: A Weblog

Rub it in, why dontcha?

Umm, doesn't IE use the Adobe Acrobat plugin? That definitely supports printing. Maybe you were viewing a document that had printing disabled?

You would think so, wouldn't you? I think it's an interaction between the Acrobat plugin and the fact that we were viewing a frameset. The plugin could display a .pdf file as part of the frameset fine, but couldn't cope when it was time to print it...

Brad, could you post the URL which leads to the inability to print?

That's weird, we tried printing a .pdf file through the browser today, ourselves ... and it didn't work. Had to save the document and load it into Acrobat from there. Our browser is Firefox, so it's not just a Microsoft thing.

I've found that saving the document to my computer, and then directly using Acrobat to open it, takes care of a lot of problems - inability to print, crashing the computer upon viewing, etc.

And you're right, Brad - these shouldn't happen in IE. Of course, since IE has dominant market share, it is Economically Optimal, which means Good. The anti-Evul Librul Team will be over shortly, to Gonzales you extensively......

Steven - I just printed a .pdf from Firefox this morning with no problem. Must be particular .pdf's that cause this problem.

At any rate, Firefox is a much better browser than IE.

I have had so many problems with the Adobe plugins that I also use the separate application. It works much better, and has had no problems with printing.

For what it's worth, I suspect it's a problem with bugs in the plugin. The printing support might be quite complex in that situation.

I've noticed some PDFs coming out of databases served by IIS don't have a file type attached. So, Firefox (or any browser) doesn't know how to open them. Saving them and then opening them with Acrobat works, but it'd be nice if they just worked the way they were supposed to.

There can be strange interactions between certain websites and the Acrobat plug-in, particularly certain frame setups.
I work on both PCs and Macs, and it happens more often with Mac OS9s than with PCs. Saving the document and then oepning it with the standalone Acrobat usually works.

Apples aren't all they're cracked up to be. Try uninstalling an app from OS9 sometime. And I think their GUI sucks, too many keyboard commands to learn.

It is also possible for the author of a PDF to set the document not to be printable by the Acrobat Viewer. This is very weak protection but some authors do use it.

The Army for example recently set most of the PDFs available on its web sites to "no print".

Cranky

At least in my experience (old NT machine) the IE print does not work, but the adobe plugin adds a new menu across the top of the frame of the document (i.e. across the top of the webpage), which has another print button from adobe that works. In the Mac world (iBook) I had to get a plugin (Schubert IT’s) for safari for the pdfs to be displayed in safari - the same as IE for the PC, I guess, but it took me a while to find one, as I was getting them all downloaded and sent to the preview application (which is fine if you want to read it but not so good if your not sure if you want to read it or not). The two strikes against IE, in my opinion, are popups, and the fact that it's the main security target. Otherwise, I like things like the page holder button almost as much as I like tabs.

Microsoft doesn't support PDF files at all. PDF is a proprietary format of Adobe corp, MS couldn't open or save (or print) to that format it even if they wanted to.

If your PC (or Mac!) can open/save/print PDF files, it's because you have software from Adobe that makes it so, if it that software doesn't work, it's Adobe that's responsible.

Trust Apple person to blame Microsoft for something that's Adobe's fault.

Microsoft doesn't support PDF files at all. PDF is a proprietary format of Adobe corp, MS couldn't open or save (or print) to that format it even if they wanted to.

If your PC (or Mac!) can open/save/print PDF files, it's because you have software from Adobe that makes it so, if it that software doesn't work, it's Adobe that's responsible.

Trust Apple person to blame Microsoft for something that's Adobe's fault.

"Trust Apple person to blame Microsoft for something that's Adobe's fault."

There are Apple people out there who aren't blind to Apple's faults, and who can express their complaints eloquently, e.g. ...

http://timmerca.com/article/2454/

It is the Adobe plug in. Nothing more annoying than going to print a PDF to learn that the installed version of Adobe was outdated and doesn't support all the characters. And then not having the permissions needed to update it.

Bones - PDF is an open format, actually. Other software companies can write PDF viewers (another commenter mentioned the Schubert PDF plugin), and enterprising operating system manufacturers could actually make all of their GUI, windowing, and printing systems in PDF, if they were so inclined. Microsoft *could* support them in the browser, but they *don't*.

Trust a PC user to spout off as an authority when they actually know nothing. Eck.

"Microsoft *could* support them in the browser, but they *don't*."

Why *should* they, since all revenues are captured by Adobe, which holds the right to market the application that creates pdf files?

I'm not sure if this is the problem in your situation, but if you are viewing PDF files in Internet Explorer, if you select print from the menu bar, it won't work, but if you click on the little print icon in the toolbar it will. At least I think that's how it works....

ogmb, why do you say that the "revenues are captured by Adobe," and they hold "the right to market the application that creates pdf files?"

Can you reference some documentation that states only Adobe can market applications that create PDF files, and that only Adobe can derive revenue from software that works with PDF files? I'm genuinely curious.

Actually OS X displays everything in pdf. It will save any printable document as a pdf. Microsoft could do the same if it wanted. There is no reason why word should not be able to export as pdf for example. It would certainly be a useful feature and I believe one built into Open Office (.org).

The Acrobat reader is rapidly becoming the new real player however.

Actually OS X displays everything in pdf. It will save any printable document as a pdf. Microsoft could do the same if it wanted. There is no reason why word should not be able to export as pdf for example. It would certainly be a useful feature and I believe one built into Open Office (.org).

The Acrobat reader is rapidly becoming the new real player however.

Apples are easy to use. Far fewer "hoops" to jump through to do things.

"Apples aren't all they're cracked up to be. Try uninstalling an app from OS9 sometime."

Um..okayyy...drag said app to the trash. Empty trash. Man-that was tough! At worst with OS9, you'd have to drag some extensions to the trash as well... something that you wouldn't have to do with OSX, the _current_ Mac OS that's been around for, oh, about 4 years now. How's that Windows ME workin out for ya?

"And I think their GUI sucks, too many keyboard commands to learn."

Huh? You don't have to learn _any_ keyboard commands if you don't want to. After living with Macs (and PCs, BTW) for around 13 years now, I find that I use around 6 keyboard commands regularly instead of their mousing equivalents- commands that, incidentally, are and have been the same in every Mac program since the 80's.

Chris --

The assertion is bogus. Ghostscript, a *direct competitor* of Adobe's, markets a PDF converter application.

Never mind that there are at least two open source pdf libraries out there (not counting the next-to-most-recent Ghostscript rev one) and that pretty much every unix print spooler on the planet will 'print to pdf'.

Brad--did you try right-clicking on the frame itself and then selecting "print frame..". The HTML source for the page itself is just the frameset code, not the code particular to the frame you want to print.

Oh yeah, and I hate Microsoft too. Also your blog rules. Makes up for me sleeping my way through Econ 101.

I can think of some great reasons to DISPISE microsoft, but this one is an absurd waste of time.
Instead, I'd love to read DeLong voice an opinion on BLS' measurement of the CPI.
I remember Katherine Abraham's response in a Congressional inquiry during the Boskin attacks, that while some might argue CPI is overstated by up to a percent, others could well argue the opposite.
Recognizing our Gov't receives substantial benefit from reporting a lower CPI, it would seem hard to argue that Boskin & team was the 1st to apply pressure to reduce CPI for partisan reasons while I know of NO case wher it's been adjusted significantly upwards. Abraham lost that argument (although I believe she represented public interest admirably), & my guess is CPI is now some 1.9% lower than anyone can rationalize. I've yet to see ANYONE project a basket, however large, that falls w/i current cpi readings).
Adding 1.9 to BLS CPI seems like a more reasoned reading of general price inflation for the last 10 years, wouldn't you agree Brad?

Actually, to my understanding, this is a bandwith saving move by the page you visited. You can a put a pdf up on the web such that it will either completely download to the browser or only load a page at a time (speeding initial download of the first page and saving bandwith if the user only looks at a page or two.

The solution is to right click and save to your desktop.

I too use Firefox and can't print directly from the browser as of the latest Acrobat upgrade; need to save then print, must be as K1..above suggests. Not just MS issue, though no need to spare the comments. There are also security features now used by some Acrobat authors/sites, seemingly a separate issue, that require a pwd to print....There's always Ghostwriter/view option.

I had the same problem, but it is easily solved. Don’t try to print using the IE print icon. Instead, hit the acrobat print icon on the toolbar below. Now I have no trouble, going to any site, and printing the pdf file that comes up with the adobe plug-in. Running Window 2000.

A query on Macs and Microsoft, sort of: When I try to access http://rudepundit.blogspot.com via Internet Explorer 5.2 for Mac, the cursor goes into an colorful but unending whirling motion and the only way I can get out of the mess is by doing a force-quit on the browser. Safari, however, loads me right up to the rudepundit site. Does IE have something against the Rude Pundit's language? I've checked preferences, and nothing suggests that I'm asking for the equivalent of a V-chip.

Everybody complains about the weather, but no one DOES anything about it.

Now, Brad, speaking as a ol' professor of economics, please tell us: what could have been done--15 years ago, 20 years ago, 25 years ago--to prevent Microsoft from becoming what it is today? This ought to be a real softball for you. Aim for the fence.

(BTW, the first draft of this post had the number "15" above spelled out--and the software WOULD NOT LET ME POST IT, saying instead, "Your comment could not be submitted due to questionable content: t33n". The second draft was rejected until I mangled the last word of the quoted error message.)

" query on Macs and Microsoft, sort of: When I try to access http://rudepundit.blogspot.com via Internet Explorer 5.2 for Mac..."

IE 5.2 is just old, old code. It no longer supports all current programming.

In this case, MS is not at fauilt. It's Adobe.

The PDF format and Adobe's Reader comprise one of the most ungainly, p**n-in-the-butt combinations out there.

How PDF ever became a doc interchange standard is one of those never-to-be-understood mysteries, alongside with why Bush was re-elected.

I've been a Web developer for about 8 years.

PDF'S SUCK!!!!!!!!!

(wow. I can't post the word pane? As in 'ouch, I'm in pane?')