February 10, 2004

"Why, This Is Hell, Nor Am I Out of It" Department

"Roger Ailes" watches Scott McClellan try to answer questions about where all the people who served with George W. Bush in the National Guard in 2002-2003 are.

Talk about a hellish job:

Roger Ailes: John Kerry has appeared at numerous campaign events with the fellow veterans who served along side him in Vietnam (and made it home alive).

Anyone seen Bush's band of brothers?

Me, neither.

And neither has Scott "Tissue of Lies" McClellan:

Q. Scott, when Senator Kerry goes around campaigning, there's frequently what they call "a band of brothers," a bunch of soldiers who served with him, who come forward and give testimonials for him. I see, in looking at our files in the campaign of 2000, it said that you were looking for people who served with him to verify his account of service in the National Guard. Has the White House been able to find, like Senator Kerry, "a band of brothers" or others who can testify about the President's service?

MR. McCLELLAN: All the information that we have we shared with you in 2000, that was relevant to this issue. And all the additional information that has come to our attention we have shared with you. The President was asked about this in his interview over the weekend, and the President made it clear, yes, I want all records to be made available that are relevant to this issue; that there are some out there that were making outrageous, baseless accusations. It was a shame that they brought it up four years ago. It was a shame that they brought it up again this year. And I think that the facts are very clear from these documents. These documents -- the payroll records and the point summaries verify that he was paid for serving and that he met his requirements.

Q. Actually, I wasn't talking about documents, I was talking about people -- you know, comrades-in-arms --

MR. McCLELLAN: Right. That's why I said everything that came to our attention that was available, we made available at that time, during the 2000 campaign.

Q. But you said you were looking for people -- and I take it you didn't find any people?

MR. McCLELLAN: I mean, obviously, we would have made people available. And we -- Mr. Lloyd, who has provided a statement to put some of this into context for everybody, made some public statements during that time period to verify the records that the President had fulfilled his duties. And he put out an additional statement now to put this into context. He's someone with some technical expertise and someone that understands these matters, because he was in the National Guard at the time.

Q. Scott, can I follow on this, because I do think this is important. You know, it might strike some as odd that there isn't anyone who can stand up and say, I served with George W. Bush in Alabama, or in Houston in the Guard unit. Particularly because there are people, his superiors who have stepped forward -- in Alabama and in Houston -- who have said in the past several years that they have no recollection of him being there and serving. So isn't that odd that nobody -- you can't produce anyone to corroborate what these records purport to show?

MR. McCLELLAN: David, we're talking about some 30 years ago. You are perfectly welcome to go back and talk to individuals from that time period. But these documents --

What? Did Bush perform his duties in solitary confinement? Was he testing a top secret Flightsuit of Invisibility? He can't remember the names of anyone who he served under, or who served with him?

Posted by DeLong at February 10, 2004 08:47 PM | TrackBack | | Other weblogs commenting on this post
Comments

i seem to recall that Bush talked fondly of the mechanics who maintained his airplane. He did a nice job of demonstrating that he was a real team player.

If that is the case, then surely one of the mechanics would remember him.

Also, aren't pilots required to keep logs of all their flights?

Posted by: Joseph Yaroch on February 10, 2004 09:10 PM

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http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume1/chap06/v1c6-4.htm#Operation Zion

Your mistake is assuming these Neo's are sane.

It's perfectly irrelevant whether there are any 'Bama Buddies for Georgy Porgy. As Al Gore so succinctly put it, 'there is no controlling authority'. The issue is dissolved. The missing records have magically been restored. No longer necessary. In fact, now an uncomfortable agent chien de paille, General Clark retired. War, and past service, is no longer the issue. It's the economy, stupid. Soon, M's of jobs, everywhere!

The neo-liberals are DYSPHRENETIC, Brad, MENTAL.

Posted by: Mea Tspac on February 10, 2004 09:20 PM

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Segment on the whole topic on Lehrer's Newhour tonight was somewhat informative, and remarkably inconclusive. Transcript at:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june04/bush_2-10.html

Posted by: Lee A. on February 10, 2004 09:41 PM

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First question would be why did we have to wait for Roger Ailes, one of *their* guys for crying out loud, to ask this question?

Second question is more complex: considering how congeniality and networking are supposed to be this President's main (only?) strengths, why doesn't everyone who served with him coming out and supporting him, or *at least* acknowledging that they remember serving with him?

A follow-up question might be whether Bush is actually such a great networker and relationship builder if he can't call them personally and ask them to step forward.

The first question demonstrates the vulnerability of the Democrats. The second demonstrates Bush's.

David Innes

Posted by: David Innes on February 10, 2004 10:03 PM

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David, wrong Ailes. This one's a blogger, not the Fox News chief. He's often mistaken for the honcho, though. ;)

Somewhat anecdotally, I was in the Navy in 1972-1973; I can remember names of people I served with, and none of them have become Governors or Presidents. If they had, I think I'd have gotten in touch to at least say congratulations. So it does strike me as really odd that no-one from that period can be found for the President of the "only remaining superpower."

Posted by: Linkmeister on February 10, 2004 10:34 PM

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Joseph,

There are definitely folks in Texas who served with him during his early hitch. So I think they are referring to anyone who remembers serving with him during the disputed times. Apparently, no one in Alabama remembers him. There is suppossed to be a reward available to anyone who can prove they served with George Bush in the Alabama National guard.

Posted by: KevinNYC on February 10, 2004 10:52 PM

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Why the Vietnam schtick?

Why isn't Kerry campaigning on his record over the past 3 years?

What's he afraid of?

Posted by: Kate on February 10, 2004 10:55 PM

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Also, Bush never flew again after some time in 1972. I don't think that has been challenged. He was apparently grounded for failing to take his required physical. There was a small chance that the physical would have required a drug test.

Posted by: KevinNYC on February 10, 2004 10:55 PM

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This is why Bush's military records (or lack thereof) may be important:

Pictures of young John Kerry in Vietnam, in battle fatigues, dress uniform receiving medals . . .

Voice over: When a coming of age at Yale University, John Kerry chose to serve his country in a war that tore at the fabric of this great nation. A leader. He led men in battle. Saved lives. Suffered wounds. Achieved valor. He built profound everlasting bonds of trust and honor among the men he fought side by side, arm in arm, with in the jungles and on the rivers of Vietnam. (Show pictures of Kerry, now Senator, with his "Band of Brothers" who show up at campaign stops.) When he returned from War; he did not forget his service to this country and his brothers and sisters who remained back in the jungles of Vietnam. He chose to lead our country out of those jungles ten thousand miles away and became of voice of sanity here; speaking critically of how this great nation's values had been corrupted by men in Washington who had never fought in those jungles; who never saw this new form of war. (Picture of Kerry testifying before Congress.) He never gave up serving or leading. John Kerry became a prosecutor, making his home state a safer place for its residents. (Kerry in a courtroom or courthouse steps.) He then took his leadership to the United States Senate, where he has served with distinction for more than three terms. (Various: Kerry with well known Senators, Statesmen, Clinton, Foreign Digniteries (Mandela, Mother Theresa, the Pope).) Now, when special interests right the laws (Pleading ocver sheet of citizens' groups against Cheney, Kenneth Lay, Enron corporate headquarters sign), and a rich person pays less of his income in taxes than a poor, or even the average, citizen, when our enviroment is compromised by the special interests that line the coffers of George Bush's campaign bank account (Show list of oil companies giving money to Bush), and especially at a time when battles are being waged across the globe for reasons now shifting on the desert sands and against percieved enemies (Saddam) rather than the one (Osama) who perpetrated the most horrible act of terrorism ever within our borders, and strategic decisions being made by men who never served our country in active service (George Bush with one of those stupid money smirks on his face with a lei around his neck at some country club party in the 1970s) or who never experienced war firsthand (Dick Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle), John Kerry saw that the average men and women of this country needed a voice, needed leadership, to put this country back on the path toward honoring its values of thrift, hard work, compassion, shared sacrifice, community and fellowship among nations. John Kerry's character was forged in service to this country. (Kerry with bandages on battle field.) Whether in war (Kerry on boat), as a prosecutor (Kerry on courthouse) or in the Senate (Kerry with Sam Nunn), John Kerry has always fought for everyone, not the select few, not those to buy influence for themselves alone. John Kerry: he chose to serve the United States. John Kerry: he learned to lead. John Kerry: he never stopped serving. John Kerry: he never stopped leading. John Kerry: the right leader to serve the United States of America; the right man to be President of the United States.

Then the nagative ad: "Where's George? show the gap in national guard record. When John Kerry was at Yale he chose to serve the United States. When George Bush was at Yale, he used his influence to avoid active military service. John Kerry led men in battle. George Bush led his way out the back gate and disappeared for many months and refused to undergo mandatory drug testing; instead, used influence to negotiate and early exit from his contract to serve our country. When John Kerry was in court fighting criminals, George Bush was in court pleading no contest to drunk driving. Whose character has been tested and not failed? Who is a true leader? John Kerry: the right leader to serve the United States of America. John Kerry: the right man to be President.


Yeah, yeah, it is a bit hokey for me; but it'll play between the two coasts. But play this over and over again. Kerry is a leader. Bush is an opportunist. Kerry then must have a simplified graphic of how Bush's constant job projections never match reality. (Have a morph of Hoover into Bush, "not since Herbert Hoover and the great depression did a President end his term with less people at work than when his term began.) Show a graphic of how little the average person's wages have risen compared to the average haul for the wealthiest tax payers. Just pound it. Finally, MAKE BUSH EXPLAIN HOW HIS POLICY WORKS, MAKE HIM DISCUSS THE DETAILS. HE CANNOT DO IT.

End of diatribe for this evening.

Posted by: Cal on February 10, 2004 10:58 PM

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Kerry must emphasize his Vietnam service, for the GOP is going to emphasize his involvement in the anti-war movement. Kerry must be forceful in explaining both.

And it's both good politics, and a relevant question for the presidential race, if Bush's Guard service during the Vietnam era was poor and incomplete. More, if W's records show tampering, it begins to show the people how he's gotten by with multiple problems with fixers from the family, and reveals his true character beneath his mask of righteousness.

But with blood in the water already, and sharks circling, Kerry needn't push this issue. His last comment was perfect. Showing magnanimity, he still skewered Bush. He said he never judged how anyone dealt with the draft issue, whether they went to Canada or joined the Guard. He made clear that joining the Guard was a way to avoid the draft and military service in Vietnam, which is true, and associated it with draft dodging.

Posted by: sofla on February 11, 2004 12:35 AM

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This is a fairly stupid question. One assumes it is asked in bad faith.

A person who serves in the Guard and serves, what, some tens of days per year is hardly likely to generate the same bonds as a full-timer. Let alone a full-timer who serves overseas in a war.

Up to a few months ago this blog was a fairly interesting read. Nowadays it just seems to be 100% partisanship. Usually just copy-n-paste from news media and other blogs. Disappointing.

Posted by: fred on February 11, 2004 01:03 AM

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All of the evidence seems to point to the correctness of the AWOL story. Why doesn't George Bush simply file this under his "feckless youth" stage and say, "Yes, I shirked my duties back then, but now I've changed, and I'm an honest, God-fearing man who's redeemed himself of all that?" That's what he did with his drunk-driving record, his lack of accomplishments until a decade ago, etc.

Posted by: Julian Elson on February 11, 2004 02:06 AM

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Shorter fred: "Shrill!"

Posted by: Barry on February 11, 2004 04:42 AM

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It's been so much fun poking this stick at George Bush. How about we start in on the Harkin Oil Deal, and then Arbusto. How much more fun would it be to have scott mcclellen trying to explain the Bin Laden/Bush relationship or how the Enron meltdown prototype wasn't at all like the Enron meltdown.

This campaign season it doesn't seem politically ok to tell the voters to go to hell. This ain't 2000.

Posted by: bcinaz on February 11, 2004 05:55 AM

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"A person who serves in the Guard and serves, what, some tens of days per year is hardly likely to generate the same bonds as a full-timer. Let alone a full-timer who serves overseas in a war."

Funny, I was only about ten years old at the time and yet I've got more documentation than Bush. No one expects him to exhibit the "same bonds" as a genuine war hero like Kerry. Bush's problem is that he's yet to exhibit any bonds at all.

He blew it off and won't admit it -- that's the issue.

Posted by: fran on February 11, 2004 06:42 AM

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The real story here is the Orwellian nature of McClellan's "answers" to not only this question but most others.

Posted by: tstreet on February 11, 2004 06:50 AM

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Just wanted to post that I'm not the kate up above who seems to be pro-bush. And brad, I *love* the partisanship and the cut and paste but actually I think of it as free inquiry, a willingness to face the facts, and a far ranging and curious mind.

Kate Gilbert

Posted by: Kate Gilbert on February 11, 2004 06:51 AM

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What are you so shrill, Fred? Why do you hate America?

Posted by: Kosh on February 11, 2004 07:03 AM

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Isn't there some sort of roster of other people who served in the Alabama unit where Bush was suppposed to have served? I'd love to see some enterprising reporter come up with a list, track them down (all right, thirty years later this would be difficult) and get them on tape looking at a picture of Bush from 1972 and saying, "Nope, never laid eyes on him."

Posted by: LizardBreath on February 11, 2004 07:06 AM

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I'd also be more happy if the blog moved on to other issues (who knows, economics?), and from time to time touched base with the election runup, perhaps with less partisanship. OK, I voted for Kerry yesterday, but I don't need any further convincing, especially not by web blogs.

Concerning the amusing imagery of Bush's "band of brothers": Andy Card and Karl Rove. Do they have any silver stars?

Posted by: Jim Harris on February 11, 2004 07:24 AM

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I wasn't in the Gaurd, but as a Regular I can't imagine a band of brothers bond forming around a unit where the members show up only for a few days every month. It's like comparing apples to dump trucks.

Posted by: Brian on February 11, 2004 07:37 AM

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Well, truthfully, I started reading here for the economic discussions, but I'll admit that this is fun.

bcinaz points out some other fun areas, but specifically the Harken Energy deal. Bush was 'vetted' on this by an SEC investigation (late filings, whatever), and it was pointed out that those Harken shares fell after Bush sold them prematurely, but that a year later Harken was selling in excess of 3 times what Bush sold the shares for. However, this really misses the point of why the Harken sale should be investigated.

The only real asset possessed by Harken at the time was, coincidentally the oil pipeline rights through Kuwait. Approx. two months later, another coincidence, Iraq invades Kuwait, and Harken shares tumble. A year later, after the first Gulf war was over, Harken's stock value shot up.

Third coincidence, but I'm not sure on the precise timing of this one, Saddam 'asks permission' of a US Ambassador who replies with words to the effect of 'we don't care what you people do'. So, the question I would like to see investigated is 'did Daddy Bush, then president, warn Baby Bush, which caused Baby Bush to sell those shares in a timely fashion?'

Oh, back to the SEC: They investigated and they vetted. Wonderful! These were the same people who let ENRON, WorldCOM, etc happen under their watch.

Posted by: Rick on February 11, 2004 07:49 AM

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It looks as if Bush's string of luck in evading the issue of why he was suspended from flying and seems never to have served after May '72 is ending. People are actually looking at the partial release of all-but-impossible-to-read documents his campaign released.

I guess he didn't plan on that.

Here's one analysis: http://democrats.com/display.cfm?id=329

It's up to the Bush to refute this, line by line.

It's up to Bush to release the rest of the documents. If they survived the scrubbing his file received in 1997.

Posted by: Charles on February 11, 2004 07:59 AM

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I've been shopping around my own term for what the Bush administration is guilty of: "Truthslaughter".

Truthslaughter has the same relation to lying that manslaughter has to murder. Manslaughter shows a reckless disregard for human life, but without the intent to kill. Often prosecutors plea-bargain down to manslaughter just to get the conviction.

So OK, let's stop accusing them of lying all the time, as long as they cop to habitual truthslaughter.

This is a particularly appropriate charge for someone like George W. Bush, whose disengagement, lack of curiosity, and ignorance often make it difficult to make the charge of lying stick -- since lying requires requires awareness and intent.

Posted by: zizka / John Emerson on February 11, 2004 09:14 AM

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Okay, I vow not to post any more proposed commercials for Kerry.

But ask yourself, how can Rove/Bush sell all that stuff to their core and it is persuasive to a hard portion of our population? It has some meaning. I realize that most of you think you are smarter than the aveage citizen, and definitely smarter than the average Bush supporter. But guess what? Just like my high school calculus teacher used to say to us in when each of us turned eighteen: "I can't believe your vote counts the same as mine." That average Alabaman who voted against a progressive tax system, and for President Bush, has the same vote as you and me. In fact, those average Alabamans have a more powerful vote, because they vote in Senators in equal number with States with much bigger populations (which have many more enlightened people in their electorates). The purpose was not to pander. I apologize. It was to suggest the type of stuff that may be persuasive between the two coasts. The Republicans have taken the South and they use it to their advantage. You don't even have to be a Democrat to be concerned, just rational. Do you really want tax dollars being used to teach "Creationism" as an equal theory as "Darwinism"? That's where we are going.

But this blog is much much more than only discussion about economics. As I have observed (and in no particular order) it is about good (and bad) books, current events, raising children, establishing a love of reading and learning in children, loving one's spouse, good food, technology, gadgets, and a whole bunch more. That's why this blog is so interesting and why I recommend it to friends. It is not limited to only economics. Also, for quite some time now, the economics has focused on how Bush is using economics dishonestly. It is not purely about economic per se, but the economics is put in a political context. And don't forget Brad's recently expressed purpose: "I'm on a mission to educate . . ."

Posted by: Cal on February 11, 2004 09:15 AM

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Commending progress where I notice it:

Thanks to all who managed to discuss Shrub's service discrepancies without the exaggerated charge of "AWOL".

Posted by: Pouncer on February 11, 2004 10:55 AM

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I wonder how much its cost the Bush family to shut up anyone who does remember Georgy in the 70's?

Posted by: flory on February 11, 2004 01:11 PM

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"AWOL" was a sort of code for "something's fishy about Bush's N.G. service". Nobody knew exactly what was fishy, and very few really claimed to. Bush has been behaving all along as if he has something to hide, and never more so than right now. There's a lot of evidence and a lot of testimony, not adding up to a conviction yet, but definitely to an indictment.

Posted by: zizka / John Emerson on February 11, 2004 01:18 PM

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Some guy who claims to have served with Bush in the TX National Guard has piped up, although it's hard to believe he remembers Bush when he can't even remember who was president and secretary of defense in the early '70s.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040210-082910-8424r.htm

Posted by: Odin on February 12, 2004 03:22 AM

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www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040210-082910-8424r.htm
The press wanted documents, the WH provided documents. The press wanted medical records, the WH provided medical records. Was that enough? No! They want GW's band of brothers' names!

You want Bush's band of brothers? Ok...go to the above and read a letter to editor from one of his 'band of brothers.' There's a few facts that you non-military folks need to know. One cannot be "awol" from the NG. Many, if not ALL guardsman have at one time or another been excused from duty to pursue college, a career change, or other so called emergency. If you don't think serving in the Guard is honorable, then what do you think about Algore getting his daddy to have him assigned as a newsguy in Vietnam for a few weeks? Odd that the awful things that John Kerry said about the American soldier who was still deployed HONORABLY in Vietnam are not being discussed. If he really was knowledgable about GIs cutting off babies' ears and chopping off non combatants arms and legs,and other awful atrocities, why didn't he report them and bring charges? Ever hear of Lt. Calley and Mei Lei?

Posted by: Mannie on February 17, 2004 02:01 AM

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"AWOL" was kind of a code word for "something fishy" ?

Would it be comparably useful shorthand to refer to Bill Clinton's flirtations, which may or may not have amounted to sexual discrimination (pressuring Jones to submit, rewarding Lewinsky for submittting, etc...) as, oh, say, .... searching for a convenient four-letter word here ... hmm.

"Rape"?

I mean, it's a felony, sure. But that's not what we MEAN. We're just using the term loosely to refer the vast set of unanswered questions which the former administration left hanging.

Posted by: Pouncer on February 20, 2004 09:06 AM

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