April 13, 2004

The Approaching End of Weblog Comments?

The comment spam--people desperate to boost their google rankings by including... ummm... ummm... ummm... non-appropriate comments linking to their sites--and the USENET spam--people whose noise-to-signal ratio is too high, and who trigger other sometimes-normal people to boost their noise-to-signal ratio as well--is very depressing. Are we approaching the end of comments on weblogs? Or at least the end of the era in which comments on weblogs were at a higher level than USENET?

I don't know. But I do know that this:

<a href="http://www.technorati.com/cosmos/search.html?rank=?=mtcosmos&url=<$MTEntryPermalink$>" title="Technorati Cosmos" target="_blank">Other weblogs commenting on this post</a>

makes cutting off local comments much more attractive by providing an easy way to present remote comments. As Technorati Weblord Dave Sifry writes:

Sifry's Alerts: BoingBoing adds Technorati support - you can too!: Tonight, BoingBoing added in a new feature that allows you to to find "Other blogs commenting on this post" for each post. It is an ingenious use of the Technorati search functionality embedded inside of the Movable Type template that BoingBoing uses. This is a great way for a site to provide a distributed commenting system that incorporates transparency and accountability - to comment on BoingBoing, you just post something that links to BoingBoing, and you'll show up in the "Other blogs commenting on this post" page. It also discourages spammers and trolls, because all comments must be posted on the commenter's blog, and those posts are accountable - even if you want to remain anonymous, the commenting blog can now itself be commented upon, ad infinitum.

There are losses: you lose the temporal dimension of the discussion (it is replaced by a more... weblike structure). And everyone who has to comment has to have a weblog. But everyone who is anyone already has a weblog, don't they? :-)

Posted by DeLong at April 13, 2004 02:50 PM | TrackBack | | Other weblogs commenting on this post
Comments

Bullbleep.

I don't have a weblong, and I don't WANT a weblog. I post in forums where it is appropriate, namely, go to the audience. I believe it would be a grotesque act of ego for me to expect an audience to come to me.

Posted by: Nicholas Weaver on April 13, 2004 03:20 PM

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This is the dumbest f****** thing you've written yet DeLong, and that's saying something, you hack.

No, wait...

Seems the reasonable solution to the signal-to-noise issue is comment registration, which many platforms already offer and MT promises to have in its next major update.

As for spam, I won't again sing the praises of MT-Blacklist, though it works very well for me, because I'm aware that blacklisting isn't a perfect long-term solution.

But it would be a shame to lose the immediacy of on-blog comments--hope you hold out.

Posted by: ogged on April 13, 2004 03:24 PM

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What I really need is a special assistant...

Posted by: Brad DeLong on April 13, 2004 03:36 PM

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Brad, check out the system they have over at Pandagon (http://www.pandagon.net/) to foil comment spam (they had a debilitating attack a couple of months ago). It involves requiring commenters to correctly enter a randomly-generated number when posting a comment. Seems to work.

And I don't have a blog yet.

Posted by: Tom Hilton on April 13, 2004 03:37 PM

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Do the same as Josh Marshall, advertise for an intern (just make sure you wife approves...).

Posted by: ch2 on April 13, 2004 03:38 PM

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As a member of the hoi polloi, I have a great respect for right-thinking and am always in favor of my own elimination. I think a sturdy rhizome structure is an excellent solution to the problem of wind-borne weeds. Who needs cross-fertilization anyway?

Posted by: john c. halasz on April 13, 2004 03:46 PM

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I had a weblog once and found I didn't want to go through the curve again to restart it. The current open 'comments' function is one of the best ways to grow the web. Almost none of the people I know personally have a weblog, although most of them could have a small one for free.

Also, a comment format that linked many sites would be good in times of low traffic, but probably a real mess when traffic spikes as news reaches high intensity.

Posted by: serial catowner on April 13, 2004 03:47 PM

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I wonder if it might be possible to enable a few elders, i.e., a few long-time, grown-up commenters, to somehow block comments that come from recidivist trolls/spammers.

Posted by: joe on April 13, 2004 04:05 PM

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Don't go changing just yet. Temporal comments allow for a certain amount of charm, if also for the occasional flame war.

And I guess this would be an inopportune moment toencourage everyone to check out my blog? :)

Posted by: padraig on April 13, 2004 04:43 PM

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Here's a link to James Seng's MovableType hack that requires the user to pass a tiny Turing test before leaving a comment:

http://james.seng.cc/archives/000145.html

It's a bit tricky to install, but works well against automated comment spam.

Posted by: Pradeep Atluri on April 13, 2004 04:48 PM

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Isn't closing your comment section exactly for these right-wing flamers want you to do? I understand your time is valuable, Professor DeLong, but shouln't you, of all, think first of technological solution first? ;-) I really think comments had something special to a blog. Also, I think it would shut you off from a few valuable pieces of feedback you get through it. If the technological solution of your choice worked, I imagine that you would find it worthwhile to read your comments section again.

Posted by: Jean-Philippe Stijns on April 13, 2004 05:24 PM

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If people are using the comment sections to create googlebombs, couldn't you just strip any links out of the comments? Actually, you could ask the authors of the blogging programs to add a configuration option: "allow links in comments" (default off).

Posted by: Josh Yelon on April 13, 2004 05:50 PM

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You know how Yahoo shows you those funny little images and has you read what's in'em? All the blog handling software needs to do is the exact same thing. Supply a blog creator with a few dozen of these image files...blog creator scrambles their names. Then the blog sofware randomizes the contents of the files a bit (to avoid recognition attacks). Next, run the pics past the creator, and have him/her type in the letter or code in the pic. As each person comments on the blog, they need to pick from a multiple choice, based on the image they are presented.

Simple, and expensive enough for spammers to deal with that the whole problem just disappares.

Posted by: Ross Judson on April 13, 2004 06:09 PM

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I'm afraid I have to agree that -- as an anti-spam measure -- this is pretty dumb. It is far less work to spam Technorati than it is to spam thousands of individual blogs.

(And don't even get me started on the subject of trackback spam.)

Personally, I no longer find comment spam to be a problem. Through a variety of simple measures (written up in some detail in a series of blog posts), I've reduced my spam load from several/day to one every couple of weeks (12 in 26 weeks, to be precise).

Posted by: Jacques Distler on April 13, 2004 06:59 PM

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OK, OK, why don't you just draw up a list of the commentators who you really find obnoxious. Now admittedly after nearly flunking econ 101 at Berkeley 38 years ago, I delight in ridiculing your profession to the limits of my capabilities, so I guess I'm deliberately obnoxious, Come to think of it, I also got into a spat with Charles Chihara on Philosophy of math at about the same time. Fortunately I took that course pass-fail. Hmmm, I wonder if he has a weblog.

Posted by: CSTAR on April 13, 2004 07:51 PM

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truth, like art, is in the eye of the beholder

Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

Posted by: Moe Levine on April 13, 2004 08:17 PM

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Build a better mousetrap, you'll catch a better breed of mouse.

Apparently automated spammers are now getting around the "enter a number" key by offering, guess what, porn to people in exchange for analyzing those numbers.

When the user requests the porn page, the spammer automatically scrapes the number, user enters the number, gets some porn, and the spammer gets access.

Joy.

Posted by: Thane Walkup on April 13, 2004 09:12 PM

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"And everyone who has to comment has to have a weblog. But everyone who is anyone already has a weblog, don't they? :-) "

Is this what they call the 'chattering class'?

Posted by: cg on April 13, 2004 09:14 PM

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I would have a weblog but unfortunately the necessity of a weblog module in the cross-media management product I'm working on is not very high, therefore I have only taken the time to develop a bare-bones framework to demonstrate the possibility without developing it to the extent that I would actually want to use it, as opposed to using some command line scripts.

And then again I'm not sure if I would actually want to use it, in the context of actually wanting to have a blog.

so uhm, has technorati found a sustainable economic model yet?

actually if google added in a isblog feature to its search you could just do the same thing with checking on any resource that is a blog page and that linked to your blog's permalink address.

Posted by: bryan on April 14, 2004 03:24 AM

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A vote for Nicholas Weaver. I don't have enough to say to merit starting a regular blog, and don't want to go through the learning curve just to write an occasional comment. Also, the idea of slogging through all those links to follow a thread is discouraging.

Posted by: Jonathan Goldberg on April 14, 2004 07:25 AM

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"But everyone who is anyone already has a weblog, don't they? :-)"

Please Dear Brad, I am anyone and I do not have a weblog. Please do not cut off comments.

Anne

Posted by: anne on April 14, 2004 09:48 AM

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Oh shut me up. Then I will have to go back to work early from my lunch hour and attempt to raise my ever icreasing productivity.

Posted by: Allen M on April 14, 2004 11:57 AM

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it's probably only a matter of time before trackbacks point to spam.

Posted by: Shai on April 14, 2004 01:17 PM

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Brad, like Whiskey Bar yours is one of the better commented blogs. I learn from many of your contributors. I hope you continue to allow comments despite the recent influx of trolls.

Posted by: No Preference on April 14, 2004 02:06 PM

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"What I really need is a special assistant..."

What are grad students for?

Posted by: Curt Wilson on April 14, 2004 05:19 PM

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perhaps we could all just be replaced by a really good shell script.

Posted by: chiggins on April 15, 2004 12:36 PM

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I agree that comments provide something that link cosmi don't. For one thing, they allow the STN ration on one's own blog to stay up. My blog is devoted mostly to analytical philosophy, and including comments like, well, this one would dilute that.

The linear structure is also a great thing--I've got a couple of fantastic discussions on my site that would just be unreadable if they were distributed around weblogs.

Posted by: Matt Weiner on April 16, 2004 12:40 PM

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Hasn't anyone here heard that Six Apart (the maker of Movable Type) is working on TypeKey to address these concerns?

http://www.typekey.com/

And of course, MT-Blacklist is a perfectly serviceable stopgap measure until then.

http://www.jayallen.org/projects/mt-blacklist/

I think comments will live on just fine.

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