Robert Waldmann strikes an extremely low blow:
Posted by DeLong at May 2, 2004 08:02 PM | TrackBack | | Other weblogs commenting on this postWhat Then, O Socrates, Is a Good Speechwriter?: Archive Entry From Brad DeLong's Webjournal: Brad, you are attempting to mislead us with an equivocation between the meanings of "good" and "Good".... Reminds me of the time (Spring 1982) when you were enthusiastic about Alasdair MacIntyre.
Waldman: “First I would say it is not always evil to misinform and delude. It can be legally and morally obligatory for a defence (sic) attorney.”
I don’t think that’s quite right. A defense attorney may not perpetrate a fraud on the court. To do so is a serious violation of the canon of legal ethics, and exposes the attorney to being held in contempt. You might say that when an attorney acts as an advocate, arguing that his client is innocent of the dastardly deed, he is in some sense misleading the court. Nor is the attorney obligated to provide the court with evidence detrimental to the interests of his client. Nevertheless, everybody knows that an attorney must act in such a manner and interprets what he says in that light. But if an attorney deliberately makes a declarative statement of fact that he knows to be false, he perpetrates a fraud. Too bad we don’t put attorneys under oath (the judge too), and really make them accountable for what they say and do.
So Brad, what is the Alisdair MacIntyre reference to? i had him as a philosophy professor at Boston U in 1978. I never expected to see his name as I am an engineer. He was an excellent lecturer and that comes from an engineering major.Just wondering
Posted by: RC on May 2, 2004 10:14 PMGoodness gracious, Brad, y'all are so darn smart that even the insults fly right over my head.
I guess I take back the "Dude!" thing... :-D
Posted by: Jim D on May 2, 2004 10:32 PMYeah, what's wrong with MacIntyre? Whose Justice, Which Rationality? wasn't so bad.
Posted by: John on May 3, 2004 07:22 AMsurely a lawyer has to tell the truth to the court. If the client tells him he is guilty, he, the lawyer ,is not supposed to allow his client to plead not guilty.
Posted by: big al on May 3, 2004 09:48 AMMacIntyre is the man. If you haven't read MacIntyre since 1982, you're missing one hell of a lot. Good stuff.
MacIntyre is certainly someone who knows all about the question you're talking about: the good in relation to a specific practice, vis a vis the good as a moral quality. However, MacIntyre's presentation of this issue in "After Virtue" (1981) was not accurate -- as he himself now knows. At least, I think he knows it, though I can't recall for certain where I read that. But I'm pretty sure he has adopted the classic Thomistic position on the unity of the virtues.
Posted by: Kent on May 3, 2004 12:01 PMAlthough I understand that it is splitting hairs, there is a difference between allowing a client to plead "not guilty" and allowing him/her to take the stand and testify that they did not do it. The not guilty plea is basically the same as saying "go ahead and try to prove it," which, under our system, everyone is entitled to do. Going on the stand and testifying falsly is something else entirely, and it is a breach of legal ethics for a lawyer to knowingly allow his/her client to do so. A lawyer is, however, entitled to allow the client to remain silent and to cross-examine witnesses, to test their memories, even if he/she knows that what they are testifying to is accurate. If the attorneys for both sides are each dooing their jobs, the truth will come out more often than not. The trouble arises when one side or another doesn't do their job.
BTW, I find MacIntyre to be an extremely difficult read, but worth the challenge.
Posted by: Paul C on May 3, 2004 12:22 PMThe bit about "Good" Vs "good" had been pointed out by an earlier commenter to the original post (the first commenter I think). I may have been mistaken in my impression that Brad did sortof kindof like After Virtue soon after it was published. There MacIntyre does seem to make a big deal of the idea that a good watch is a watch that keeps accurate time and thus for us to be Good we must be true to our Telos. Not one of his finer moments
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