May 20, 2004

Jonathan Alter Is Not Among the Shrill

Kevin Drum wonders why Newsweek's Jonathan Alter is so much more critical of Bush on (evanescent) radio than he is in (durable) print. Alter responds:

The Washington Monthly: CLOWNS REVISITED....A couple of days ago I took a swipe at Newsweek's Jonathan Alter for not being willing to say in print what he's willing to say on the radio, and today he responds in a piece by Brian Montopoli at The Campaign Desk:

Alter disputes the notion that he's too restrained in print. "If I just attacked Bush with a sledgehammer every week in Newsweek it would get pretty predictable, so I vary my pitches," he says. "But lately I've been whacking him pretty good. I haven't done it that explicitly, but I've certainly done it and expect to do it some more." He acknowledges, however, that different mediums force journalists to play different roles -- and that he takes a different approach in Newsweek than he does on a liberal radio show.

I don't have anything against Alter, whose writing I generally like, and as I mentioned in comments, "I accept that you don't persuade the readers of a national magazine by sounding like a derelict at Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park." Still, I can't help but think that while your tone might change, you still ought to provide readers with your real, unvarnished opinion — and if your real opinion is that the Bush administration is populated by "clowns," you have an obligation to figure out a way to say that regardless of medium. Not only do you owe it to your readers to say what you really feel, but you also owe it to your critics to let them know the point of view that informs your writing...

I also like Jonathan Alter, but there's a little bit of self-deception going on there: "whacking him pretty good" but not "that explicitly." What's going on is right-wing media bias: Alter is afraid of being labeled "shrill" if he writes what he really thinks about the Bush administration. But he should not be afraid: he owes it to his readers to stand up and call the Bush administration what it is: a clown show, and an evil clown show at that--not funny at all.

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Comments

Of course he should, and of course he won't (careerism above all), and of course the right wing has worked the refs in favor of self-censorship and stacking the op-ed deck with plenty of right-wingers (not just conservatives, which i'd be much happier to see).

But the failure of the bush administration on so many fronts is likely to have a whole variety of consequences, and a little bit of cleaning up of the pundit act may be one of them.

Of course, while not a blog-triumphalist, i think that one thing blogs have already proved is that there is no real reason for the pundit as we know him or her - overpaid, underinformed, lazy, in search of television opportunities - to survive much longer....

Posted by: howard on May 20, 2004 07:02 PM

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Strange that Paul Krugman has been doing it for four years now, and is still at the Times. "Shrill" is fine if you're right.

Presumably Alter has lots of specific reasons to dislike the Bushies, beyond the undefinable loathing that we all share. Those arguments are what he should write about, backed with logic and facts. Otherwise, he is doing his readers and himself a great disservice.

Posted by: Silent E on May 20, 2004 07:15 PM

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Nancy Pelosi did a great job of eloquently ripping Bush a new one today. Guess she's got more balls than Jonathan Alter. Also inspired me to send $50 worth of turkee to the DCCC.

Posted by: RT on May 20, 2004 07:45 PM

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Pelosi only called him "incompetent". She has not gone as far as "clown show" yet.

Of course the GOP claimed Pelosi was bashing the troops.

Note: any criticism of Mr. Bush and his Iraq policies should be prefaced by praise for the great job the troops have done.

"Our troop have done a great job in Iraq under difficult circumstances. Unfortunately they have been failed by Mr. Bush and the politicians in his administration..."

Posted by: bakho on May 20, 2004 08:11 PM

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And the criticism of Bush's Iraq policies is growing as of late. I particularly liked Anthony Cordesman's succinct summary (see below).

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0520-01.htm

The apocalyptic language is becoming increasingly common here among normally moderate and cautious politicians and observers.

Larry Diamond, an analyst at the conservative Hoover Institution, said: "I think it's clear that the United States now faces a perilous situation in Iraq.

"We have failed to come anywhere near meeting the post-war expectations of Iraqis for security and post-war reconstruction.

"There is only one word for a situation in which you cannot win and you cannot withdraw - quagmire."

"Anyway you look at this, outside the most extreme optimistic assessments, we end up weaker," a senior Republican international strategist said.

Anthony Cordesman, a military scholar at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the most serious problem in US government was "the fact that a small group of neo-conservative ideologues were able to substitute their illusions for an effective planning effort by professionals".

General Hoar was equally scathing about the caliber of the Bush administration.

"The policy people in both Washington and Baghdad," he said, "have demonstrated their inability to do a job on a day-to-day basis this past year."

Posted by: Dubblblind on May 20, 2004 08:47 PM

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Isn't it terribly moral of the German people to discover that genocide, spurning of international law, wars of aggression and insane dreams of conquest are wrong after they have been accomplished? What a humbling example of heroic self-examination. One shudders to think what they could accopmplish next time around, with such timely and careful journalistic and moral standards.

Posted by: k&y on May 20, 2004 09:35 PM

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How many journalists passed on a minor, if troubling, break in at the Democratic Party National Convention Offices in some DC Hotel?

Perhaps Mr. Alter, whose writing I too like, who has taken shots at Bush, right jabs as it were, might want to consider that bush is going down, and the guys and gals that get in on the ground floor of bush take down, might benefit far more than keeping their stinkin access to the lie factory that is the bush White House.

I mean, really, other than making little scottie squirm like a third grader who had 2 colas for breakfast and 5 minutes before recess, what do they expect to glean from access to this White House? Contempt and abuse on the planes, at the ranch, etc? Access to the musings of an inarticulate, incurious, self obsessed charlatan with nothing to offer, really, except revenge and simplistic platitudes?

Although, watching and reading little scottie twisting in the slightest, and I mean profoundly insignificant, breezes is kinda fun, in a sheer amazement sort of way, like watching a hot dog eating champion do his thing.

Posted by: Duckman GR on May 20, 2004 09:38 PM

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Howard @ 7:02. I don't think it's purely careerism. (Though there is nothing wrong with that.) Alter has a powerful forum, and he does have to maintain a professional tone to stay in that forum. That does not mean that he can't strike effectively and devestatingly. My own impulse is to scream out in revulsion over what is happening to our country, and the time may come for that. But we need some calm but deadly people on our side. Hersch is like that. I haven't read enough of Alter to know if he is like that.(I will now) but I suspect he is.

Actually, I'm beginning to think that "our side" may have less to do with ideology than it does with rationality.

Posted by: Another Bruce on May 20, 2004 09:44 PM

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Professional, never-shrill Alter advocates torture at http://www.exile.ru/190/letter_from_america.html
scroll down to "time to think about torture"
by way of "Tim"

Posted by: k&y on May 20, 2004 10:04 PM

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k&y-

The Germans have shown a much greater capacity for self-examination and improving their moral standard than we have in the past fifty years. Your snarky, shallow post makes it sound like you wish they had remained mired in facism - obviously that can't be the case, right?

Posted by: Joe Decker on May 20, 2004 10:09 PM

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I'm the editor of a suburban Dallas weekly, and have hit Bush on Iraq again and again since early 2003. (in addition to showing up at downtown Dallas antiwar protests.)
I've been called things besides shrill by some readers. A few have cancelled subscriptions.
But, the managing editor of our newspaper group knows that I show enough business sense to write columns about other topics in between the Iraq ones, so I'm on no big leash.
Hell, our owner was Bob Dole's 1996 Texas campaign treasurer (but no big friend of the Bushes). He doesn't say no.
So fuck Jonathan Alter. Fuck him. If I can go out on a limb for $30K a year in "Bush country" he can sure as fuck do it for $100K in New York.
Fuck him, and Brad, next time you talk to him in person on radio or whatever, tell him exactly what I'm writing now.
I could e-mail him, I suppose, but he'd give me some bullshit form response.
Better yet, give me his phone number and I'll tell him to get a pair of fucking conejos.

Posted by: Steve Snyder on May 20, 2004 10:21 PM

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Decker-what are you taking about? We were talking about good Americans like Alter, who realize after the damage is done how Bush might not be Jesus Christ. Other than trollish provocation how exactly do you get the idea that we wish the Nazis had never been defeated?

And exactly where have the Germans, to bring them up now that you have, shown any capacity for self-examination? By supporting Israel? By bombing Serbia?

Posted by: k&y on May 20, 2004 10:27 PM

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"Isn't it terribly moral of the German people to discover that genocide, spurning of international law, wars of aggression and insane dreams of conquest are wrong after they have been accomplished? What a humbling example of heroic self-examination. One shudders to think what they could accopmplish next time around, with such timely and careful journalistic and moral standards.
Posted by k&y at May 20, 2004 09:35 PM"


You appear to be the one bringing Germans into the thread, k&y. Do you not read your own posts?

Posted by: Steven Rogers on May 20, 2004 10:45 PM

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BDL: "What's going on is right-wing media bias: Alter is afraid of being labeled "shrill" if he writes what he really thinks about the Bush administration."

Absolutely, it's right-wing media bias, if you assume that there is (in a generalized sense) a right-wing opinion-holding counterpart to Alter who does not pull his or her punches in the same fashion.

Posted by: Joe Mealyus on May 20, 2004 10:47 PM

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We only referred to "Germans" metaphorically, speaking (we thought pretty clearly) of recent atrocities, and the media complicity in them, at the hands of a country that is not Germany. Hint, hint, this country is currently occupying Iraq and is found in the North American continent. But there we go slandering Belize! Decker was either stupid or-just possibly-deliberately slow in not picking up on the comparison, and it is hard to see his completely off topic screed (in which he said we missed the Third Reich) as legitimate unless you honestly think we were talking about Germans.

Original comment translated for the likes of Decker:
soul-searching on the part of mass-murderers,
delayed until after their crimes,
might as well not happen.
Alter was part of the Amen Chorus begging and pleading for this war, and earlier he'd advocated torture.
Now he wants to play Humphrey Bogart: we say let his words catch up with him.

Also, to the not too readily confused, certain comparisons to other countries might present themselves.

Posted by: k&y on May 20, 2004 11:04 PM

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Ah, I see Godwin's Law has kicked in...

Appropos in any discussion of the Bush Administration.

Posted by: Richard Cranium on May 20, 2004 11:46 PM

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"Absolutely, it's right-wing media bias, if you assume that there is (in a generalized sense) a right-wing opinion-holding counterpart to Alter who does not pull his or her punches in the same fashion."

How about a galaxy of 'em, from Rush Limbaugh to Cal Thomas?

Remember from September 2002 to May 2003, during the buildup and the easy part of the Iraq war? Remember 1998? Hell, even the respectable ones weren't pulling their punches during those periods. Remember the whole industry of Hillary-bashing books 4-5 years back? Remember how John Walker Lindh was an indictment of liberals everywhere? (Funny, I haven't seen any columns from them about how the 'bad apples', Charles Graner, Lynndie England, etc., are an indictment of gun-toting, rural red America. But I digress.)

Anyway, there's plenty of right-wing commentators who never pull their punches. Help yourself.

Posted by: RT on May 21, 2004 02:54 AM

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Alter practically demands Ghuraib:
"
Until 1999 an interrogation technique called shaking was legal [in Israel; not clear why Alter imagines it stopped in '99]. It entailed holding a smelly bag over a suspects head [another strange construction; shaking means covering the head as in the pictures, who would be "holding" it?] in a dark room, then applying scary psychological torment. (To avoid lessening the potential impact on terrorists, I wont specify exactly what kind.)
"
More at Atrios and Digby.

Nope, nothing remotely Nazi-like in crying for the abandonement of human rights and international law...

Posted by: k&y on May 21, 2004 05:25 AM

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Oh, please....Alter is on Imus at least once per week lambasting the administration. Just because someone decides NOT to act like a Michael Moore lunatic, no matter how much you think it should be done, is no reason to pull out the victimology flags (yet again).

It's the right wing's fault that Alter isn't as much of a left-wing fanatic in print as you'd like?

Sheesh......

Posted by: Ricky on May 21, 2004 06:16 AM

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"Just because someone decides NOT to act like a Michael Moore lunatic"


ummm...being against torture is lunacy now?

Posted by: k&y on May 21, 2004 06:18 AM

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Shrill Michael Mooron lunacy:

obey international law, don't start a war without excellent intel and an exit strategy (the shrill, Michael Moore-like Powell Doctrine), don't screw up fifty years of diplomatic progress, don't trust a felonious fugitive as your sole source on a aggressive conquest, also, torture is bad

Pretty insane, no? Also, too crazy for a single "mainstream" journalist to think about writing. They have to write sane things like the equation of dissent with treason, explanations of the necessity of sadism or demands for unnecessary war. Nothing shrill about that.

Posted by: k&y on May 21, 2004 06:34 AM

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Godwin's law is a good piece of blogosphere legislation (and I say that as an ex-con who has violated it). However, the justification given for it is faulty--it's idiotic to say that the first person to bring up the Nazis loses the argument. Would it be wrong to compare Rwanda to Nazi Germany and would someone who did so "lose" an argument? If so, who cares?

The good reasons for not using Nazi comparisons are as follows--

A) The US has plenty of crimes against humanity in its own history. As a matter of national pride, we shouldn't need to use foreign imports if we want to make an overstated comparison.

B) Nazi analogies evoke Pavlovian responses. The original issue gets lost in the fog.

C) The bad justification given for Godwin's law leads people to trivialize human rights abuses. You know, person X brought up the Nazis, person X automatically loses the argument, and the atrocity person X was yelling about must therefore be unimportant.

D) In the specific case of Israel, where Godwin's law is often violated, comparison to Nazi Germany is greatly overstated (horrific as Israel's record is) and guaranteed to lead to pointless shouting.

In the future all American atrocities should be compared to things like

1. Lynchings on postcards, with people laughing in the background
2. Intellectual justifications given for slavery
3. Various acts of ethnic cleansing and genocide committed against Native Americans
4. The Philippine/American war
5. Recent American atrocities of your choice. Keep in mind that many Americans need at least a century to pass before they can recognize an American atrocity, especially one committed by their own party, so comparison of Abu Ghraib to the Iraqi sanctions policy or the war on Vietnam or Reagan's Central American policy may only lead to more denial.


We could then have a heated debate about whether comparison of Abu Ghraib to past American crimes against humanity somehow "trivializes" those past crimes.

Posted by: Donald Johnson on May 21, 2004 06:51 AM

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"I'm beginning to think that "our side" may have less to do with ideology than it does with rationality." -- Another Bruce

"Beginning?"

Better late than never, I guess. Welcome to the ranks of the rational, AB. Invite your friends.

Posted by: Holden Lewis on May 21, 2004 07:07 AM

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"'evil' clown show".

The language has regained its full force. Good.

Posted by: John Thullen on May 21, 2004 07:41 AM

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Better yet, give me his phone number and I'll tell him to get a pair of fucking conejos.

I'd think it would be better to tell him to get some balls (cojones) instead of some rabbits (conejos).

Posted by: Basharov on May 21, 2004 08:09 AM

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ummm...being against torture is lunacy now?
I'll be darned....another strawman gets knocked down.

Posted by: Ricky on May 21, 2004 08:25 AM

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http://www.mumpandsmoot.com/ Bush/Cheney `04 Evil Clowns in times of change...

Posted by: A Hermit on May 21, 2004 08:57 AM

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Well, if Alter tried to call the President an "evil clown" in print, don't you think his editors would take that out? I don't know, and maybe he doesn't want to press the issue and find out. That's understandable.

Posted by: grond on May 21, 2004 08:57 AM

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Me: "Absolutely, it's right-wing media bias, if you assume that there is (in a generalized sense) a right-wing opinion-holding counterpart to Alter who does not pull his or her punches in the same fashion."

RT: "How about a galaxy of 'em, from Rush Limbaugh to Cal Thomas?"

The existence of which tells us nothing about overall influence and access to the public. But fine, believe if you want that right-wingers dominate the media. Newsweek is still (as far as I know) trying to compete with Time, not The Nation or The American Spectator, and a right-wing version of Alter would be (I shall believe, unless someone has some Newsweek RW rants they wish to cite) just as constrained as Alter. So BDL's citing of Alter - a holder of left-wing opinions who is not entirely constrained from expressing them - as evidence of "right-wing media bias" is well, I think it's flat out bizarre.... It's like, if I find a right-winger working for Time, that's evidence of left-wing media bias?

Posted by: Joe Mealyus on May 21, 2004 10:36 AM

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Joe Mealys:

You're right. I guess the Washington Post has no readers; Sean Hannity sells no books, his radio show has no listeners, and his TV show has no audience; Rush is insignificant; the American Enterprise Insitute talking heads aren't on TV half the week; Fox News has horrible ratings; etc...

Posted by: Daniel on May 21, 2004 11:06 AM

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oops, I meant 'Mealyus'

Posted by: Daniel on May 21, 2004 11:20 AM

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k&y,
"Isn't it terribly moral of the German people to discover that genocide, spurning of international law, etc., etc. etc...."

I don't know what brought that on, but why don't you wait and see what becomes of us as we go through our little experience with creeping fascism? The Germans after all learned a great deal from their mistakes. Our track record in learning from OUR mistakes has not been that good

Posted by: Brendan McDaid on May 21, 2004 01:24 PM

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k&y,
"Isn't it terribly moral of the German people to discover that genocide, spurning of international law, etc., etc. etc...."

I don't know what brought that on, but why don't you wait and see what becomes of us as we go through our little experience with creeping fascism? The Germans after all learned a great deal from their mistakes. Our track record in learning from OUR mistakes has not been that good

Posted by: Brendan McDaid on May 21, 2004 01:27 PM

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The basis of our complaint, and the main reason we bring up the Holocaust in discussions, is this bizarre notion that you can only complain about evil after it is finished. Brendan we hope is sarcastic.

And again this idea that the Germans learned a great deal from there mistakes-based on what? The Japanese still have open fascists and untouchable boundaries for journalists (the Japanese press is largely silly tabloid garbage, and their "liberal democats" [who are neither] have owned the government forever). So why should our proxies in the front lines against Stalinism be better? Is it knee-jerk let's bash America, Europe is so much better on so many things they must just be better than us all the time? There are actually a few great things America does better than Europe.

Posted by: k&y on May 21, 2004 02:43 PM

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Alter supported the war, and yes, he was one of the first in the media to suggest that torture might be acceptable. It's not surprising that he's finding it hard to criticize Bush. I'm not interested in what he has to say.

Posted by: No Preference on May 21, 2004 04:05 PM

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Daniel: "I guess the Washington Post has no readers; Sean Hannity sells no books, his radio show has no listeners, and his TV show has no audience; Rush is insignificant; the American Enterprise Insitute talking heads aren't on TV half the week; Fox News has horrible ratings; etc..."

Well, fine, but my point isn't there isn't a huge overall right-wing bias in the American media, but that BDL's specific argument about Alter is not persuasive.

Posted by: Joe Mealyus on May 21, 2004 05:56 PM

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I don't think Godwin's Law refers to the legitimacy of Nazi comparisons, only the inevitability of them turning up in long-running threads and thereby derailing the original discussion.

The post-war generation were heavily schooled in the checklist of Bad Things The Nazis Did, and when we see our country doing them, of course we are horrified. The fact that we haven't yet checked off every item on the list is small solace - after all, the Nazis hadn't done them all by '39, either.

We recognize the path. We don't want to get to the end of it.

Posted by: Avedon on May 21, 2004 08:36 PM

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k&y

not trolling, just dropping by from atrios to read the take on alter.

i don't equate "german" with "nazi," or "facist." there was a time last century when you could. there are elements of those freaks haunting germany today, just as america has its gangs of violent racists and theocrats running around. i took exception to your non sequitor. maybe i missed a previous thread where you decided to set our current problems against 1930s germany. while there are certain parallels, i think it's kind of cheap and easy, certainly in the drive-by fashion you wrote above. none of it really excuses using "german" as a slur. you weren't even being funny, just smug.

thanks to the others here who clarified or expanded upon my point.

Posted by: Joe Decker on May 22, 2004 05:30 AM

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I'm not a regular reader of this blog, butI've enjoyed your little debate over my work. I just wish one of you besides maybe ricky, Duckman and Anthony Bruce had actually bothered to read any of scores of columns i've written about Bush since 1999. or even last week's. They are almost all critical of him.

just because i don't go for vicious, i'm a sellout?

just because i think the sledgehammer gets boring and is actually less effective as a tool of argument, I have no cajones?

remember, i'm trying to convince people who may be unsure what to think of him (yes, some such people actually exist), not just preach to the choir.

and believe me, i've never had any access to the bush white house to lose.

p.s. if you're looking for leftwing versions of all the rightwing columnists, look somewhere else. As you've probably figured out, that's not what I'm about. Cheers.

Posted by: Jonathan Alter on May 22, 2004 04:01 PM

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I'm not a regular reader of this blog, butI've enjoyed your little debate over my work. I just wish one of you besides maybe ricky, Duckman and Anthony Bruce had actually bothered to read any of scores of columns i've written about Bush since 1999. or even last week's. They are almost all critical of him.

just because i don't go for vicious, i'm a sellout?

just because i think the sledgehammer gets boring and is actually less effective as a tool of argument, I have no cajones?

remember, i'm trying to convince people who may be unsure what to think of him (yes, some such people actually exist), not just preach to the choir.

and believe me, i've never had any access to the bush white house to lose.

p.s. if you're looking for leftwing versions of all the rightwing columnists, look somewhere else. As you've probably figured out, that's not what I'm about. Cheers.

Posted by: Jonathan Alter on May 22, 2004 04:01 PM

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"just because i don't go for vicious"

Alter-watch him not respond to this-we were specifically accusing you of "going for vicious". What else can the advocacy of torture be called?

How can you be a "sellout" if you were never moral in the first place?

The thing that divides "left" and "right", for us, is still the fact that the rightists are liars and can be shown to be liars. Craphammer is a good case. Interesting indeed that Alter says nothing about the merits of argument or the veracity of facts-his sole concern, like that of the rest of the imaginary center, is tone. Let's not let our pulse increase on reading of children converted to ash. Let's be nice, except of course when advocating torture.

It is possible to be "fair" with many rightist politicians. With Bush we have a lot of meres-mere corruption, mere nepotism, mere theft, mere murder. Jonathan Alter's pretence of balance would actually make a lot of sense with Ford, Nixon or Ike. If you cannot just bleeding admit to the low mere crimes of this administration, you are doing it on purpose.

Posted by: k&y on May 22, 2004 06:52 PM

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"just because i think the sledgehammer gets boring and is actually less effective as a tool of argument, I have no cajones?"

This is either a fundamental misunderstanding of the charges-or deliberate dissembling. The thing that started this whole thread, recall, was Alter saying one thing in columns and then Alter saying a very different thing with a different audience. Is calling them "clowns" not a sledgehammer?

There is nothing shril or sledgehammerish in calling a thief a thief.

Alter, while not responding to us, please respond to good Mr Steve, the Texan editor who is pissed that he did his duty as a journalist to call a spade a spade while you, making massively more money, were unable to?

Posted by: k&y on May 22, 2004 06:59 PM

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Let's Not be Shrill to Fascists Alter and his alter-ego, Gallagher Alter (he of the sledgehammer)
Stop hating on Bruce Wayne, you freepers. You can't expect a journalist to tell the truth in his columns, he has to wait until he's not writing to actually journalize.

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