Courtesy of Ogged, I now know something that has been intermittently puzzling me for years and years: why the ancient Achaemenid dynasty capital of Iran--Persepolis--has a Greek name ("Persepolis" being a Greek word: "Perse" being Greek for "Persia" and "polis" being Greek for "city"). Ogged says that the Farsi name for "Persepolis" is "Takht-i-Jamshid":
Iranians do refer to Persepolis as Persepolis (pronounced like perss-police), but they also call it by a properly Farsi name: Takht-e-Jamshid. Takht, in modern Farsi, means "bed," so you can see the relation to "seat of power" and, by extension, the "throne" (Jamshid being a proper noun, like Cyrus, etc.). I did a little googling to see if anything else turned up, and, apparently, "Parsa" was the ancient name of the place, which makes a lot of sense.
Now isn't there a reference to "Jamshid's Throne" in Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat?
Posted by DeLong at June 11, 2004 08:52 AM | TrackBack | | Other weblogs commenting on this postThat might be Mahmud, not Jamshid, with the throne.
http://www.gutenberg.net/etext04/rubwi10.txt
No, it's in there, but transliterated differently:
Iram, indeed, is gone with all his Rose,
And Jamshyd's Seven-Ring'd Cup where no one knows;
But still a Ruby kindles in the Vine,
And many a Garden by the Water blows.
(5th edition I think)
Posted by: Andy on June 11, 2004 11:39 AM Jamshid is another name for the Indo-Iranian deity Yima/Yama. In Persia, Yima had at least three valances: as the first of the immortals to embrace mortality to share the life of man, as a legendary king renowned for wisdom and justice, and as the King of the Dead. It seems that the second concept is the one implied by the place name.
In India Yama is also known as the son of a solar deity. Although he has a minor role in Indian religious literature, he is one of those deities like Indra who is felt to be popular and accessible, judging by the distribution of small scale images in local temples. He is also sometimes depicted with a sister, a river goddess called Yima. From India, Yama was spread by Buddhism. In Tibet, he is known as Gsn-rje. In Cambodia, he is depicted in the reliefs at Ankor Wat. In China, as Yen-lo [Pinyin transliteration unknown.], he has the same sort of widespread worship as in India, but in the religious literature, which reflected the Imperial bureaucracy, he is identified as the ruler of the Fifth (of Eight) Major Hell(s) – actually more like Purgatory in that it is temporary. In Japan, he is Emma-Oh, who appears must prominently in the Jodo sect. The iconography and descriptions of Yama even appear to have revolutionized the mythos and iconography of the east Siberian god Erlik.
He really gets around, for reasons that should be obvious.
John R. Hinnels, Persian Mythology.
J. Hakin, et al., Asiatic Mythology.
Richard Cavendish, ed., Mythology: An Illustrated Encyclopedia.
Hafez
For many years my heart wanted
something for me,.
not knowing that it was itself
what it wanted:
the desire for Jamshid's cup,
wherein all existence can be seen,
except for that chalice itself, that is.
There was a man beloved of God
who cried out to God, "Why
have you forsaken me?"
I took the riddle of this into a tavern
and asked the one who served.
He said, "Some secrets must be kept,
not told to the world at large.
The rosebud and the soul write mysteries
on their margins fold within fold.
Stay closed and wait."
"Your wine glass is the all-revealing cup!"
"Given before the creation."
"And what of that woman there
that I cannot forget?"
"Hafez," said the tavernmaster, "this love
within you that speaks needs
some restraint!"
http://www.bestirantravel.com/culture/poetry/hafez_poetry.html
Posted by: Bruce Ferguson on June 11, 2004 01:41 PMA lot of the proper names we have for Asian places and persons are Hellenised but, so far as I know, most of these Greek names are attempts to coerce real local names into the Greek language, so it doesn't surprise me that "Persepolis" is a Hellenised "Parsa". A Latin equivalent comes to mind: the German who helped Quintilus Varus's ass get kicked is named "Arminius" in the records but almost certainly it that was the Latinised form of something like "Hermann". Also we have Greek "Ammon" for Amun.
On a somewhat related subject, I don't think that enough persons realise how Hellenised are the popular conceptions of Egyptian mythology. Isis and Osiris continue to exercise the imaginations of Newagers everywhere, yet the _locus classicus_ of the story of Isis, Osiris, and Set is not Egyptian but Greek; it's out of Plutarch. Since Egypt had long been in the Graeco-Roman sphere in influence by Plutarch's time I suspect that the cult of Isis as it has come into popular culture (q.v. Apuleius) was largely Greek.
Posted by: Ernest Tomlinson on June 11, 2004 01:47 PMDunno about Jamshid's Throne--but I'd like to know who the hell greenlighted that 80s roller-disco turd, Xanadu. That guy needs a fatwah.
Seriously, didn't Heraclius drive the Persians out of Asia Minor in 600-something and, being Carthaginian, try to rename everything after Ronald Reaga--whoops--I mean rename everything in their greek-envy fashion of the day?
Posted by: fouroboros on June 11, 2004 02:06 PMTAMBURLAINE
And ride in triumph through Persepolis!--
Is it not brave to be a king, Techelles?--
Usumcasane and Theridamas,
Is it not passing brave to be a king,
And ride in triumph through Persepolis?
TECHELLES
O, my lord, it is sweet and full of pomp!
USUMCASANE
To be a king is half to be a god.
THERIDAMAS
A god is not so glorious as a king:
I think the pleasure they enjoy in heaven,
Cannot compare with kingly joys in earth;--
To wear a crown enchas'd with pearl and gold,
Whose virtues carry with it life and death;
To ask and have, command and be obey'd;
When looks breed love, with looks to gain the prize,--
Such power attractive shines in princes' eyes.
-------------------
http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/sid.1/bookid.1078/sec.9/
MJB,
Yama is not a minor deity in hinduism. He is the god of death and of "dharma". To my best knowledge he is not directly worshipped in most temples. This does not mean that he is really minor.
Actually, persia was conquered by Alexander the Great and afterwards ruled by his successors, the Seleucids, who were then overthrown by the Parthians, who were Persians and saw themselves as the successors of the Achemaeniden. While the administrative and military structure was in the tradition of the old empire and their religion was zoroastrianism, they adopted the Greek culture (e.g. theatre) and even the Greek language as official language!!! On many coins the Parthian kings called themselves proud "Hellenophiles". Hence, given that the Greek language was the official language in Persia for almost 500 years it does not seem surprising that "persepolis" was commonly used.
Posted by: Georg Gebhardt on June 11, 2004 05:38 PMMy own name, "Cyrus" (SIGH-russ in English, Sí-roos in Farsi) is a Greek transliteration of the Persian name Koorosh, which changed into Greek as Kooross, because that Greek (or modern Greek too? I don't know) lacked the "sh" sound, so it became Kooross, and then changed from Greek script to Latin script became Cyrus eventually. In modern Iran, both names exist today.
Posted by: Cyrus J. Farivar on June 11, 2004 08:48 PMMy own name, "Cyrus" (SIGH-russ in English, Sí-roos in Farsi) is a Greek transliteration of the Persian name Koorosh, which changed into Greek as Kooross, because that Greek (or modern Greek too? I don't know) lacked the "sh" sound, so it became Kooross, and then changed from Greek script to Latin script became Cyrus eventually. In modern Iran, both names exist today.
Posted by: Cyrus J. Farivar on June 11, 2004 09:00 PMAh, but Georg, that's the Republican, Alexander-centric hajjiography [sic]
The rest of the story:
Heraclius. Byzantine Emperor
Born: Carthage, 574
Died: Constantinople, February 11, 641
Son of a Carthaginian Exarch (territorial governor) of the same name, Heraclius liberated Constantinople.
As his prize, he was crowned emperor and inherited a Byzantine Empire under wide assault by Turks, Persians and Slavs. Heraclius restructured the military and reformed a corrupt public sector.
After a dismal first few foreign policy years, losing Jerusalem, Egypt and Damascus, Heraclius took to the field at the head of his troops and succeded in driving the Persians out of Asia Minor. Turning again to domestic issues, as a devout Christian he tried and failed to quell discord between competing christian sects--basically, arguments about whether Christ was a God only, or a man and a God at once. Or something like that.
While Heraclius was refereeing this fight, he was being blindsided by the previously fractious and ineffectual Arabs who had now been united and mobilized by Mohammed under "Islam". The Arabs retook Syria, Egypt and Palestine, pushing as far as Paris and reversing most of Heraclius' gains.
He died, on this date, in 641, brilliant in battle but a failure at "the big picture," shamed by the destruction of the once mighty Eastern-Roman Empire.
In lieu of flowers, please send donations to the Internationalist pro-engagement aware Democratic Presidential candidate of your choice.
(Okay, I actually blogged that back in Feb to comemorate Heraclius death--yeah, too much time on my hands. But seemed very parallel to a modern age with it's godly boy emperor hell bent on saving the world and losing his own ass)
Posted by: fouroboros on June 11, 2004 09:51 PMSomewhat off topic, but here's a commentary on the public relations challenges to an earlier Persian empire:
The Persian Version
Truth-loving Persians do not dwell upon
The trivial skirmish fought near Marathon.
As for the Greek theatrical tradition
Which represents that summer's expedition
Not as a mere reconnaisance in force
By three brigades of foot and one of horse
(Their left flank covered by some obsolete
Light craft detached from the main Persian fleet)
But as a grandiose, ill-starred attempt
To conquer Greece - they treat it with contempt;
And only incidentally refute
Major Greek claims, by stressing what repute
The Persian monarch and the Persian nation
Won by this salutary demonstration:
Despite a strong defence and adverse weather
All arms combined magnificently together.
-- Robert Graves
Posted by: Henry on June 13, 2004 05:14 AMfart
Posted by: egg on June 13, 2004 06:25 AM