Brad DeLong's Semi-Daily Journal (2004)

it turns out that McCain had also turned Bush down in 2000, link from dailykos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/7/135359/0216

so I guess that means you could also run with "Dick Cheney was George Bush's second choice for vice president."

"it turns out that McCain had also turned Bush down in 2000"

Projection, again . . .

McCain's office is denying he was ever offerred the VP nod. So Bush-Cheney does lie about everything!

if I am wrong, then I am wrong, but I am certainly not projecting. here is the source for the cheney thing. it was supposedly on CBS's early show:

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2004/cyb20040322.asp#2

Over on CBS’s The Early Show, Hannah Storm told McCain: “Interesting that Senator Joe Biden proposed a unity ticket with you as a running mate for Kerry. You said a week ago on national television that you would actually entertain that thought-"
     McCain: "Hannah-"
     Storm: "I know that you two are friends. Have you talked about it. Have you talked about this with Senator Kerry?"
     McCain: "No. We are friends. Joe Lieberman is a friend of mine, also, as is John Edwards. You know, in America I think it's still possible to have a friend if they're in another party, at least I hope so. Look, I don't want to be Vice President of the United States, I do not want to leave the Republican party, I would not be Vice President of the United States on either ticket. I told President Bush when he asked me in 2000 if, when he asked me if I was interested, I said I was not interested. I love being in the United States Senate and I am of the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. I can not categorically more state, answer no."

Errr... I don't get the Carlyle Group one?

if I am wrong, then I am wrong, but I am certainly not projecting. here is the source for the cheney thing. it was supposedly on CBS's early show:

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2004/cyb20040322.asp#2

Over on CBS’s The Early Show, Hannah Storm told McCain: “Interesting that Senator Joe Biden proposed a unity ticket with you as a running mate for Kerry. You said a week ago on national television that you would actually entertain that thought-"
     McCain: "Hannah-"
     Storm: "I know that you two are friends. Have you talked about it. Have you talked about this with Senator Kerry?"
     McCain: "No. We are friends. Joe Lieberman is a friend of mine, also, as is John Edwards. You know, in America I think it's still possible to have a friend if they're in another party, at least I hope so. Look, I don't want to be Vice President of the United States, I do not want to leave the Republican party, I would not be Vice President of the United States on either ticket. I told President Bush when he asked me in 2000 if, when he asked me if I was interested, I said I was not interested. I love being in the United States Senate and I am of the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. I can not categorically more state, answer no."

"Errr... I don't get the Carlyle Group one?"

Rubenstein:

...when we were putting the board together, somebody [Fred Malek] came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He's kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he'll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

I said well we're not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don't think he adds that much value. We'll put him on the board because - you know - we'll do a favor for this guy; he's done a favor for us.

We put him on the board and [he] spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years - you know, I'm not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don't think you're adding that much value to the board. You don't know that much about the company.

He said, well I think I'm getting out of this business anyway. And I don't really like it that much. So I'm probably going to resign from the board.

And I said, thanks - didn't think I'd ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn't have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven't been invited to the White House for any things.

Please remember that of all the people choosing Vice-Presidential candidates, only Cheney got his first choice.

Cheney is not Bush's first choice for a running mate, but unfortunately it looks like Ken Lay is going to be otherwise occupied for a while.

George W. Bush was George H.W. Bush's second choice for president.

Sorry, the premise for this post isn't quite right. Although the internal name of the ad is "First Choice", the ad itself doesn't say anything about Kerry's choice for Vice-President. In fact, the ad doesn't mention Kerry at all. You can see the ad at: http://www.georgewbush.com/VideoAndAudio/

As usual, we have reading comprehension problems:

" I told President Bush when he asked me in 2000 if, when he asked me if I was interested, I said I was not interested."

That is not saying McCain was offered the vice presidency, only that he was asked if he would be interested in being considered for it. And, there is no evidence that Edwards was even Kerry's SECOND choice.

Kerry's wooing of McCain is his only embarrassment so far, in a campaign that's been otherwise well done. But there's so much time to go, that this shred will be forgotten--or even turned to advantage with the McCain Repubs, who anecdotally are bailing-out on Bush, due to his ridiculous and insulting social atavism and the blunder in foreign policy.

Certainly, the Bushies make yet another error today, by banging on the McCain syllogism so soon: "Kerry wanted McCain; McCain likes Bush instead; Edwards was second-best !" Can Kerry like McCain, if McCain likes Bush? Golly! I shall consult my third-grade-schoolyard Miss Manners guide!

And by tomorrow, this will be yesterday's snooze.

Maybe McCain understands this, which is maybe why he's stepping up for the GOP, NOW. It's likely that his name is being used only with his implicit say-so. Would it be so surprising if he sits out the rest of Bush's campaign but for the convention--or even if he were bruited for Defense or State, under Kerry (without necessarily caring to accept)?

Many of the things this McCain story implies would matter more if this were the last month before election. But of course there's four months to go, which means the electorate still has one or two major emotional realizations to undergo. Therefore, the electorate is going to discount almost every opinion that is now prevalent.

This campaign is unusually stretched out, so the "emotional beats" are very different. This error in presupposing a normal campaign dynamic (quite aside from the abnormally strong foreign policy issue!) has been propagated by everyone.

As usual, Patrick is having logic comprehension problems.

It is the Bush campaign that decided McCain being asked if he's interested (by Kerry) implies that he is was the first choice. If that's true in 2004, it should be true of 2000 also.

McCain ardently supports Bush after the way he was treated in 2000? I do not think that shows much self-respect.

Patrick is correct on one thing though, there is no evidence that Edwards was Kerry's second choice.

Just so, masaccio! After the way they trashed his wife, you'd guess McCain is just paying lip service to his party, until Bush gets thrown overboard. After the Kerry overture he's required to show at least a little loyalty, no? But that means Bushie unfortunately gets a two-minute story headline.

It's probably impossible, but is there some chance that McCain's chief of staff could be featured in an ad saying that McCain was never offered the vice presidency? Even if he is not a willing participant? There's got to be some newspaper out there that reported this, so at the very least, they could mention that article.

Brad, I like all of your suggestions, especially the second one.

Of the variations on a theme, I thought Poorman hit pay dirt with 'Dick Cheney's second choice for VP was Dick Cheney.'

Nader is Nader's first choice. It's these seemingly "throwaway" comments are the ones that the some of us remember.

But, I know, I know, it's easier to pick on everyone's favorite whippin' boy: Ralph Nader. Begs the question too, if the statistics are what people say and so many are voting for Nader--then ask yourselves--WHY?

The Left is still the Left. And repeatedly kicking Nader-voters in the teeth really isn't the way to getting a united party. If you want Bush outta office, go after Bush voters or those who aren't planning on voting. Or better yet, sell the Left on Kerry (the fact that he isn't Bush just ain't workin').

"if I am wrong, then I am wrong, but I am certainly not projecting"

Sorry, I meant that your post showed the Republicans projecting again, of course.

Generally speaking, if the Republicans accuse the democrats of doing something, you can count on it that the evidence will eventually show that the Republicans do it twice as hard and three times as often.

In today's WaPo, Bushlet is apparently going around saying that Cheney is qualified to be President, in part because of his foreign policy credentials.

Surely this is exactly the point: Cheney has in fact shown the effect of his credentials by running foreign policy for the past three and a half years.

Real life, the game where empirical results do count.

"It is the Bush campaign that decided McCain being asked if he's interested (by Kerry) implies that he is was the first choice. If that's true in 2004, it should be true of 2000 also."

Don't try this at home, fellas. Kerry decided McCain was his first choice (and more than once tried to get him to accept). Bush never got beyond asking him if he wanted to be considered.

Patrick R Sullivan:

"Kerry decided McCain was his first choice (and more than once tried to get him to accept)." 9:18 am

Aren't you assuming a lot here? I don't recall Kerry, his wife, Jim Johnson, nor McCain saying what you are saying here. Now, I remember a lot of media speculation to this effect, but not confirmed fact. I remember hearing many times throughout this process that this is speculation on the part of media people without actually anything from the principles involved. Perhaps you could point me to where this assertion of yours is supported by comments from one of the four above mentioned? I'll clarify that I am referring to McCain being asked more than once, since one could make the a case for being asked once given the data available.

General:

As to why this was a good idea, it very effectively neutralized the left wing fringe image attempted the past three months on Kerry, as well as showing that this man can think outside the box, something I suspect many Americans are wishing their current President demonstrated. It also showed Kerry's willingness to work with those of principle that he does not share agreement with in some significant areas, which is never a bad thing in such a polarized environment as currently exists. That there never was any serious chance that such a ticket would come about keeps being overlooked by those that want to argue that McCain was Kerry's first pick. This was a useful rumour that the Kerry camp left run perhaps a bit too long, but that's about it.

I think why this bothers some Republicans is that it reminds Americans that there can be respect and cooperation across party lines when it is with those of principle, and by not scorning Kerry in his refusals of this "offer" he also implicitly recognized Kerry as another man of principle and honour. Coming from McCain, this is very powerful anti-venom to the approach the Bush camp prefers to use, and I also think it was a way of McCain getting some of his own back against Bush for 2000 primaries.

By trying to go this "second choices" route, and especially with this McCain-Bush ad released by B-C we are seeing a bit of nervousness on their part, and that is never something an incumbent wants to have seen. I do feel sorry for McCain, for he is in what I suspect is a very uncomfortable position by doing this support, but he recognizes that to stay in the Republican party he has to support this President in the election. Why doesn't he quit the party if he has such objections, some would ask. I would suspect he is hanging in to be able to redirect the Republican party back towards the principled conservatism it used to have prior to the takeover to the religious right. Personally, I think that is a good thing, because sooner or later this extremist wing will cause a major defeat for the party, and there will be a need to change the leadership of the RR and the neocons with something else, and I think it would be much better to see McCain's sort of renewal than some of the others that might happen.

Now, I realize I am speculating about motives here, but at least I am honest enough to conceed this up front, instead of trying to claim it as something more substantive. This line of attack on the Edwards choice will be minimal to nil in it's overall effectiveness, I think, and the events that made it a possible line I think paid off very well for Kerry. So overall, I think this element has been a negative all around for Bush-Cheney.

Patrick Sullivan's quibble reminds me of an old story about dating in Vienna, the city of diplomacy.

"If I were to ask you to sleep with me, would you say yes?"
"If I told you I'd say yes, would you ask me?"

Truly the story isn't proof that McCain was Bush's first pick in 2000. Bush could have already had five rejections at that point.

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