August 12, 2004

Another Milestone Passed...

Today, for the first time in my life, I spent $20 on tomatoes: 7 pounds of heirloom tomatoes from Andronicos at $3 a pound.

They had better be good. They had better be very good.

Posted by DeLong at August 12, 2004 05:46 PM | TrackBack | | Other weblogs commenting on this post
Comments

Ach! They are $1.89 a pound, mix-n-match, at the Berkeley Bowl. But then you have to stand in the Berkeley Bowl lines, which are formidable, although manageable with some reading material.

Posted by: asarwate on August 12, 2004 06:15 PM

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I think we've reached the point where even food itself can be conspicuous consumption. Bizarre.

Posted by: Tom DC/VA on August 12, 2004 06:23 PM

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Well, if they are worth it, let us know... But, wow, at that price, maybe you ought to just pop over the hills into the Central Valley, or the nearest little interior ag valley, or down toward Salinas, or whatever is handy around there, once a week and get your fruit (tomato is a fruit) at a roadside stand. I think they'll be cheaper and closer to fresh picked.

Posted by: jml on August 12, 2004 06:40 PM

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Silly economist. Haven't you taken *any* home economics?

Go to Andronicos for the beautiful displays of wax fruit and expect to pay for that. Go to Monterey Market for actually edible and tasty fruit and vegetables.

Posted by: haasalum on August 12, 2004 06:40 PM

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Silly economist. Haven't you taken *any* home economics?

Go to Andronicos for the beautiful displays of wax fruit and expect to pay for that. Go to Monterey Market for actually edible and tasty fruit and vegetables.

Posted by: haasalum on August 12, 2004 06:44 PM

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Come on over to Japan for a couple of weeks and go back and kiss your produce section with its cheap prices. Good thing China has invaded the Japanese market, but Chinese farmers use those nasty pesticides circa 1960 to an extent Japanese protectionists don't like. No cheap spinach for a year! Some of us are truly suffering, Brad.

Posted by: yami on August 12, 2004 06:51 PM

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From their website: ""Good fruits and vegetables in season"

Our philosophy is to run a village-based business that supports both the local farmers as well as the local community. We sell tasty and healthy organic foods at great prices. Our mission at Monterey Market is simple, "to provide good fruits and vegetables in season". We provide an array of delicious seasonable produce and other quality products for our customers.
"

Besides which, you're the econ prof. Why are you complaining? There are lots of very good sources of fresh food in Berkeley ranging from Monterey Market, to the Berkeley Bowl, to the Berkeley Farmers' Market(s), to the Seafood Deli, to the Box, and even including Andronicos.

I only wish the hellhole I call home (Phoenix, Arizona) had a better choice of soylent food than Frys and Safeway.

Given all of those choices, if you are paying $20 for tomatoes it must be worth it to you. So stop complaining. And stop bragging.

Posted by: haasalum on August 12, 2004 06:53 PM

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From their website: ""Good fruits and vegetables in season"

Our philosophy is to run a village-based business that supports both the local farmers as well as the local community. We sell tasty and healthy organic foods at great prices. Our mission at Monterey Market is simple, "to provide good fruits and vegetables in season". We provide an array of delicious seasonable produce and other quality products for our customers.
"

Besides which, you're the econ prof. Why are you complaining? There are lots of very good sources of fresh food in Berkeley ranging from Monterey Market, to the Berkeley Bowl, to the Berkeley Farmers' Market(s), to the Seafood Deli, to the Box, and even including Andronicos.

I only wish the hellhole I call home (Phoenix, Arizona) had a better choice of soylent food than Frys and Safeway.

Given all of those choices, if you are paying $20 for tomatoes it must be worth it to you. So stop complaining. And stop bragging.

Posted by: haasalum on August 12, 2004 06:56 PM

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Can there actually be such a thing as a (small aitch) "heirloom" tomato?

Posted by: Jon Moyer on August 12, 2004 06:59 PM

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Can there actually be such a thing as a (small aitch) "heirloom" tomato?

Posted by: Jon Moyer on August 12, 2004 07:00 PM

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re Haasalam,
Yes, I agree. And come to think of it, IMVHEFBO (in my very humble ex-farm boy opinion) some of these gourmet (gorumand?) supermarkets around here have really lousy produce for the prices. That goes for everything from the precious little sprigs of herbs in their plastic boxes, to the huge beautiful shiny fruits and freshly sprayed veggies. Everything is there except taste and texture. I won't name any names, but I am refering to more than one supermarket. So I go there for the breads and other things, never the produce.

Posted by: jml on August 12, 2004 07:05 PM

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You don't grow your own? It's easy enough if you own a balcony (and I'm sure you own more than that). You can get heirloom seeds easily enough through the net. It's not a big effort and the returns are well worth the investment.

Posted by: Knut Wicksell on August 12, 2004 07:06 PM

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How about the economics of growing your own tomatoes? Granted, they'd probably cost more than $3/pound if Brad had to pay himself whatever he makes for every hour he spends in the garden. But tomatoes are about the easiest garden vegetable there is, and you get a much wider variety of cultivars to choose from, including heirloom varieties. Maybe he even could pull the eleven year old away from the books to help out.

I just brought in a couple of tomatoes from the garden myself. I'm a little disappointed this year. I'm growing so-called "Better Bush" (no political comments). Last year, I grew Ace (a very old standard as far as I know) and had better results.

Posted by: Paul Callahan on August 12, 2004 07:11 PM

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How about the economics of growing your own tomatoes? Granted, they'd probably cost more than $3/pound if Brad had to pay himself whatever he makes for every hour he spends in the garden. But tomatoes are about the easiest garden vegetable there is, and you get a much wider variety of cultivars to choose from, including heirloom varieties. Maybe he even could pull the eleven year old away from the books to help out.

I just brought in a couple of tomatoes from the garden myself. I'm a little disappointed this year. I'm growing so-called "Better Bush" (no political comments). Last year, I grew Ace (a very old standard as far as I know) and had better results.

Posted by: Paul Callahan on August 12, 2004 07:13 PM

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Certainly we all remember our first $20-of-tomatoes day.

It's when you find yourself shelling out a benjamin in a back alley for a trunkful of toast that you know you need to seek help.

Or maybe that's just me.

Posted by: ymr049c on August 12, 2004 07:48 PM

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Brad, can you put up instructions on how to post, like Crooked Timber has? I think we all would be happier, but most of all your rather balky MT DB. TIA!

Posted by: Tom DC/VA on August 12, 2004 08:12 PM

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What's the Seafood Deli? I've lived in Berkeley for eight years and I'm not sure what that is?

Posted by: Robert Mahnke on August 12, 2004 08:46 PM

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did you adjust for inflation in calculating the significance of the milestone?

Posted by: christopher brandow on August 12, 2004 09:19 PM

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Berkeley Bowl, like IKEA, is best enjoyed first thing on a weekday morning. Of course, then the cash register jockey will ask a 40ish corporate lackey -looking type if he's unemployed to be shopping at this hour. I got only $5 worth of heirloom tomatoes last time and they are Good. And don't forget Cheese Board! Mmmm. And good bakeries. I just wish I was rich enough to buy a house in Berkeley...

Posted by: NotSoFast on August 12, 2004 09:22 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:22 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:24 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:26 PM

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Low inflation. Will someone think of low inflation?

Posted by: a on August 12, 2004 10:27 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:28 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:30 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:32 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:34 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:37 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:40 PM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 12, 2004 10:46 PM

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By the way, an interesting fact (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don_cap): if you thought US is big at helping the nations abroad, on per-capita basis it is #20 and the top 3 countries provide roughly 15 times as much. Helps you to put the claims of suppporting freedom and liberty all over the world into the perspective, does it not?

Posted by: a on August 12, 2004 10:55 PM

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Save the seeds. It's not like they're difficult to grow, says my wife.

Posted by: Doug on August 12, 2004 11:00 PM

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Save the seeds. It's not like they're difficult to grow, says my wife.

Posted by: Doug on August 12, 2004 11:03 PM

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Okay. Enough suspense..... were they good?

Posted by: 2fair on August 12, 2004 11:05 PM

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And you say the Bush tax cuts aren't working!

Steve, I think that may be a record.

Posted by: KevinNYC on August 12, 2004 11:16 PM

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Heirloom tomatoes are good, very good. The crop seems to have come in early this year. BTW you don’t have to live in Berkeley to get this kind of stuff. I used to live just across the border in north Oakland, and I could have stayed, but I left to shorten my commute several years ago. I miss the good weather, but other compensations more than make up for that. So I wouldn’t necessarily lament not being able to afford a house in Berkeley. Good produce and other culinary satisfactions have now become widely available. I’ve generally found the produce sold at farmers markets to be over priced (like Andronicos where I used to shop). Berkeley Bowl provides good value if you can park and don’t mind the long lines.

Posted by: A. Zarkov on August 12, 2004 11:55 PM

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And this one is an absolute beauty (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/2k.htm:)

Indeed, after inflation was factored in, purchasing power of a working couple in 1995 was only 8 percent greater than for a single working man in 1905

Eat your tomatoes, Brad. When the revolution comes you know where your ass is going to be.

Posted by: a on August 13, 2004 12:45 AM

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Professor Delong, settle an argument for me. Who invented banking? Was it the Genoese?

If I think of anything helpful or intelligent to say about tomatoes I'll be in touch.

Posted by: Harry Hutton on August 13, 2004 12:55 AM

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I will never read any of your posts again. Andronico's produce section is the GWB White House of East Bay produce. Shoddy, expensive, and ready for the compost heap.

Posted by: ogmb on August 13, 2004 02:33 AM

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"They had better be good. They had better be very good."

When they're good, they're very, very good, but when they're bad they're better.

Posted by: Bruce Moomaw on August 13, 2004 03:26 AM

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'Heirloom' tomatoes are, IIRC, varieties which used to be grown a lot, but which have been replaced by strains which produce 'shippable' fruit - meaning fruit which has been optimized for physical strength, as opposed to taste.

Posted by: Barry on August 13, 2004 05:02 AM

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"I think we've reached the point where even food itself can be conspicuous consumption. Bizarre."

Posted by Tom DC/VA

That point was reached a long, long time ago. Just in historical times, what do you think a large, lavish feast with exotic foods was?

Posted by: Barry on August 13, 2004 05:10 AM

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Brad,
You've touched on my favorite reason for living in Tel Aviv. I get the most beautiful, delicious, deep red tomatos all year round. Right now, during the season exports are least needed in Europe, I pay 30 cents a pound. In Cambridge, MA I always pay $3 a pound for the same quality.
Tel Aviv Reader

Posted by: Tel Aviv Reader on August 13, 2004 05:55 AM

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That is an expensive turd

Posted by: HLS on August 13, 2004 06:22 AM

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Come to NJ Brad and enjoy real tomatoes. NJ tomatoes rule!

Posted by: Mark G. on August 13, 2004 06:26 AM

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Come to NJ Brad and enjoy real tomatoes. NJ tomatoes rule!

Posted by: Mark G. on August 13, 2004 06:30 AM

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The best thing to do with those heirlooms is caprese salad:
sliced tomatoes
bit of salt
fresh basil on each slice
sliced mozarella
drizzle with olive oil.

That will show you how good those tomatoes are.

Posted by: christopher brandow on August 13, 2004 07:19 AM

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The best thing to do with those heirlooms is caprese salad:
sliced tomatoes
bit of salt
fresh basil on each slice
sliced mozarella
drizzle with olive oil.

That will show you how good those tomatoes are.

Posted by: christopher brandow on August 13, 2004 07:20 AM

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For idiot-proof, home-grown tomatoes try a Tomato Success kit like this one from gardeners supply. (I'm sure that you could make your own, and there are other self-watering containers.) At $64.95 the kit is kind of overpriced, but it has everything to get you started for the first year: a large self-watering container, soil-less medium, red plastic mulch and a cage. They usually go on sale in the fall if you're willing to plan ahead.

They have all kinds of tips on how to grow tomatoes in containers too.

Wish I could cut and paste the whole link.

Posted by: Abby on August 13, 2004 07:27 AM

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Some input (or output) seems called for from the great Pacific NW.

Whole Foods has heirlooms on sale (2.99/lb), which gives new meaning to that word. Recently they've been 3.99.

Not quite as good as the Whole Foods in SF, but much the same quality - which is excellent.

The key is to think of these as the main course, and then they are cheap.

Best served sliced with a good blue cheese and just a little italian dressing.

They are clearly worth the extra dollar/lb or so that the next quality level down, and what else can you buy for a main course (beef/pork/good chicken) at that price.

The fresh seafood quality in Portland is exceptional, so this former SF guy is quite happy with the choices in Whole Foods (usually referred to locally as Whole Paycheck.

Posted by: JimPortlandOR on August 13, 2004 08:00 AM

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Hello:

In Pennsylvania, "Whole-Foods" elite store was trying to sell "organic cherries" at $11.99 per LB.
That caused enough consternation for me to call up the manager and bitch big time at this store.
Management needed a taser-shot for that one.

Posted by: Dave S. on August 13, 2004 08:27 AM

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The only reason to have heirloom varieties is to preserve the gene pool. Flavor-wise they suck and can only appeal to those who respond to the hype. Hybrids of every type, save the two locule tomato, of the last 15-20 years far, far excel heirlooms for overall taste and acid/sugar balance, yet they are never offered at yupster groceries.

Posted by: Boskos on August 13, 2004 08:32 AM

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Geez, Brad - try the farmers' markets. Berkeley, Oakland (3), El Cerrito. Heirlooms for $1.50/lb.

Posted by: flory on August 13, 2004 09:00 AM

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They're good at Andronico's, but there's a better selection at the El Cerrito Farmer's Market (in the El Cerrito Farmer's Market, handy because Trader Joe's is nearby) on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Usually about $2.00/lb. And lots of varieties! So you can by a lot of tomatoes for $20.... Berkeley Farmer's Market on Saturdays is good, too.

Posted by: Steve Michel on August 13, 2004 09:17 AM

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Mark G - not surprisingly, I agree with you!

I just visited the Bay Area for the first time in 15 years - returning for a day to my old Berkeley stomping grounds. I was traveling with a friend - another Jersey girl - who couldn't understand why I dragged her into Berkeley Bowl as part of the tour. We left about an hour and a half later, carrying so much produce, bread and coffee that we could just barely walk. Ah, fair Berkeley Bowl. Having said that, I have to insist that nothing beats summer produce from a Jersey farmstand.

Posted by: Jersey Tomato on August 13, 2004 09:34 AM

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no hype with regards to the heirloom flavor as far as I can tell boskos. maybe I haven't been eating the right hybrids, but by and large the best-tasting heirlooms beat the pants off the best tasting hybrids. with Sungold cherry tomatoes excepted.

Posted by: Christopher Brandow on August 13, 2004 09:56 AM

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Christopher you're onto the right track with 'Sungolds' - just keep going - there's a big, wide world of hybrid flavor, sugar/acid balance/pectin levels out there. Check out roadside stands. Good hunting.

Posted by: Boskos on August 13, 2004 10:00 AM

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Steve Michel, step away from the typewriter. And keep your finger off the return key.

Btw, for all my disdain for Andronico's produce section, their Forno bread took away Acme's crown for best bread in the Bay Area.

Posted by: ogmb on August 13, 2004 10:26 AM

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Brad,

What are you thinking? Where was your cost benefit analsysis? Andronicos Mark-up is almost always more expensive then the non-chain green grocers.

If you came to the Sunset, then you would get delicious heirlooms at less then $1 a lb at the 22nd & Irving produce market. You'd need to pay the bridge toll and the gas, but at a savings for $13+ dollars, you'd come ahead.

Plus 22nd & irving has better or equal produce then andronicos. This has been proven conclusively by the presence of andronicos stock boys buying 22nd and Iriving produce to put on the local Andronicos shelves when they run out.

devgirl,
is amused
and recommends that you slice the tomatoes, lightly salt them (sel del mar is best, but kosher rock or regular mortons will do), toss them with fresh green onion and black, oil cured olives. Be generous with your proportions; I typically do an equal tomatoes to an equal combined onion/olive. You may add garlic if you're a fan, as it makes the dish a bit picante. Serranos do the same. Let sit at room temperature for 1 hour. You can chill in fridge if you're serving it next day. Make sure you use a glass or ceramic bowl to avoid reactions between the tomatoes and your dish. The use of extra virgin oil to flavor the dish is really not necessary unless you crave it - the black olives provide enough fat.

Make sure you have some levain bread to sop up the juices that sweatted from tomato/onions/oils. (I recommend a levain walnut to get an extra kick). Its almost a meal in itself.

Bon apetit!

Posted by: devgirl on August 13, 2004 11:10 AM

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Berkeley Bowl, like IKEA, is best enjoyed first thing on a weekday morning.

Monterey Market's selection is better, I think, and you can run to get a pound of coffee around the corner. But really, Northern California's tomatoes just aren't as good as the East Coast's; I had some spectacularly good Cherokee Purples last week.

Posted by: Steve on August 13, 2004 11:29 AM

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So when do we see a post from Adrian S. about the liberal bias in eating heirloom tomatoes?

Posted by: Uncle Jeffy on August 13, 2004 11:37 AM

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Ah, California! The prices, honey! Here along the third coast (rural outlying areas), the tamaytoes are local and about a buck a pound and they are wonderful this summer.

I've been trying to imitate the pico de gallo served at a famously good, down-dirty taco bar I go to when in Austin TX. My pico de gallo is good, but not THAT good. They won't tell me what they do -- probably nothing special. So it comes down to this, in case there are any (effete, of course) Californians who happen to know, which is the most desirable pepper for pico de gallo? Serrano? Jalapeño? I've used both and think maybe, after all, the jalapeño is best.

Kudos to Devgirl on her form of tomato worship!

Posted by: Bean on August 13, 2004 12:02 PM

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I don't know what kind of heirloom tomatoes Boskos has experience with, but his impression certainly doesn't match my experience so far. I have five heirloom varieties in my Boulder Creek garden; so far only the Brown Berry cherry tomatoes and Lemon Boy standards have ripened. But I've never tasted a hybrid as interesting as the Brown Berries (a complex tart/sweet taste unlike any tomato I've tasted before), and the Lemon Boys are quite nice as well. (Also on the way: Green Grape cherry, Mortgage Lifter standard, and Snow White cherry.)

Source: a fellow in Boulder Creek who has 160 heirloom varieties in his garden!

Posted by: Dave Trowbridge on August 13, 2004 02:17 PM

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PLEASE do not put them in the refrigerator . . . .

Posted by: cc on August 13, 2004 03:29 PM

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Ditto on Andronico's being the most expensive grocery store in these parts. Brad, why the heck aren't you buying veggies at the Bowl or at the farmers markets? Any more posts like that and I'm not going to believe you're a real economist anymore.

Tom - I don't think it's like this everywhere else (is it?). The Bay Area takes its food very seriously though.

OGMB - Andronico's Forno bread took over Acme bread as best in the Bay Area? According to whom?

Posted by: Theresa on August 13, 2004 05:35 PM

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In a nod to a prior post: Chez Panisse is also having good luck with pluots:

Saturday, August 14 $75
An apéritif
Carpaccio of local halibut with anise hyssop, lemon, and capers
Nettle and sheep’s milk ricotta cannelloni with sweet pepper sauce
Spit-roasted Magruder Ranch grass-fed beef loin with cognac sauce and eggplant
and tomato napoleon
Pluot puff pastry tart with raspberry ice cream

Posted by: cal on August 13, 2004 08:20 PM

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In a nod to a prior post: Chez Panisse is also having good luck with pluots:

Saturday, August 14 $75
An apéritif
Carpaccio of local halibut with anise hyssop, lemon, and capers
Nettle and sheep’s milk ricotta cannelloni with sweet pepper sauce
Spit-roasted Magruder Ranch grass-fed beef loin with cognac sauce and eggplant
and tomato napoleon
Pluot puff pastry tart with raspberry ice cream

Posted by: cal on August 13, 2004 08:21 PM

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I also recomment the Monterey Market, but I think those heirloom tomatoes are overrated. More generally, produce has not been very good in the past five years; peaches, especially, have been a great disappointment. When I first moved out here (1989) you used to get wonderful peaches, even at the supermarkets; now you're lucky to get a few really delicious ones the whole summer. Andronicos sometimes has good stuff (as, e.g., those great Wilson oranges in the winter) but they are the most expensive by far, and in general no more likely to be good. Enjoy!

Posted by: Nancy Irving on August 13, 2004 10:36 PM

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So how were they, Brad?

Posted by: Randolph Fritz on August 13, 2004 11:37 PM

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"Andronico's Forno bread took over Acme bread as best in the Bay Area? According to whom?"

According to me.

Posted by: ogmb on August 14, 2004 12:58 AM

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"Here along the third coast (rural outlying areas), the tamaytoes are local and about a buck a pound and they are wonderful this summer."

The Bowl is selling chery tomatoes (Romanitos?) bulk for 69c a pound. Btw, when I used to live in rural Illinois (lovely Urbana Champaign) the produce came at a premium because it had to imported from Florida or California. All of Illinois' agricultural output goes to Wisconsin to feed the cows (or so I was told).

Posted by: ogmb on August 14, 2004 01:02 AM

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