I confess I've only seen the screen version, in which it's obvious that Jud's the bad guy, even before he first shows his face, and we're left clueless about why (insert name of female lead's role; I've forgotten it) ever accepted his invite to begin with.

Hope the production you saw made more sense of it...

Growing up, our family listened to the LP record of Oklahoma (movie version) all the time. I didn't see the movie itself until a few years ago. The dream sequence blew me away!

Hey, I saw that production in LA,, with my son, who had just played Will Parker. It is based on the London production of a few years back starring the divine Hugh Jackman, available on DVD -- because they are all Brits, etc., they over-cornpone their accents so the effect is like going to see improv where someone has to have their taxes audited in the style of Tennessee Williams.

The guy who impressed me was Curly -- he actually got laughs with Hammerstein's lines, no easy feat.

They had Jud with turn-of-the-century porno in his Lonely Room, bad choice; they should have just gone all the way and had him say that someday a real rain will come down and wash the scum off the prairie.

I am not fond of Rogers and Hammerstein. They remind me of prog rock groups like ELP or Yes -- like, "The problem with this popular and entertaining art form is that it's not self-consciously artistic enough."

Is now a bad time to mention that I rather like Electric Light Orchestra and Yes?

Yea, but it is a play about Oklahoma. Not only the worst place i have ever been to, and live in, but also one built upon genocide. Not Dismiss R&H, (Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead is great) but hell, Oklahoma is a horrible place built on horrible foundations. Tom "Abortion Doctor for the Death of Abortion Doctors" Coburn should answer any questions.

Instead of a psycho killer, why not a commenter at Free Republic? Or maybe a fake journalist with privileged White House access...

I hear the Mills Bros are getting back together.

You've got to put "Oklahoma" in context. It was first produced in the late 1950s and was the first musical to tell a story rather than just have songs for entertainment value. The musical theater has moved on a great deal since then--"Hair," "A Chorus Line," etc.--and "Oklahoma" and Rogers and Hammerstein seem quite dated in comparison to the high-tech musicals that are now popular ("Cats," "Wicked," "Miss Saigon"). But "Oklahoma" was at least ground breaking as anything that has been produced since and its characters need to be seen in this light. Jud was originally just a not as good looking version of the leading man. That's why he has always been played by a character actor (think Rod Steiger). All of the current characterizations of Jud are just attempts to explain him with a modern eye. Back in the 1950s, pathology would have disqualified a character from even being in Broadway production.

policywonk - I was all set to disagree with you, but Oklahoma! was first produced in 1943, so you might be right. (I *knew* the songs in musicals advanced the plot well before the late 1950s, e.g. Guys and Dolls (1950).) Courtesy of my parents, I've listened to a large number of 1950s-vintage musicals, but I can't even recall the name of a 1930s-era musical.

RT...The musicals in the 20s and 30s were more vaudeville and burlesque than stories that used music as a key ingredient to advance the plot.

I think a "Jud" you can't sympathize with misses the point of the story at the heart of Oklahoma. Jud represents one of the necessary losers in a society that is changing and moving forward at breakneck speed. Up to a point the characters tolerate him and even feel some measure of compassion for him...until he poses a danger and transgresses the law, and then the community bands together on their own to absolve Curly of his death and enforce their standards. The audience should pity Jud and feel conflicted about how Laurie toys with him. But at the same time understand that while the American community is flexible and forgiving, it must adhere to a code of law that sometimes falls harshly on society's losers in order to protect itself. That doesn't really come across if Jud is just a psycho meant to die from the outset.

If someone truly wanted to update a production of Oklahoma!, Jud would be cooking meth out in the barn and reading the Turner Diaries.