September 11, 2002
Why We Probably Aren't Living Inside a Simulation

Some philosophers are arguing that it is highly likely to be the case either (a) that human technological progress will come to a rapid stop well before the coming of a Vingean "singularity"; or (b) that we are overwhelmingly likely to be living inside a simulation of their ancestors' behavior being conducted by some group of posthumans.

Rich Baker has what I see as an effective counter to this argument.


culture data repository 1.5: Might we be living in a simulation? In the real world things like the strength, elasticity, heat capacity and colour of materials are all determined by the laws of quantum mechanics as applied to electrons and nuclei. In principle you could deduce all of these properties just from the laws of motion of the particles, but that would take quite ridiculous amounts of computer power. What's more, in everyday life you never notice all these things are derived from the same underlying cause. In a simulation it would be good enough to just give objects believable properties by fiat: you could just say that the object reflects light in some particular way, and bounces in some manner when you drop it, and breaks if you hit it hard enough. This would need much less computing power than simulating things in exacting detail - it's just a refinement of the way computer games work today.

Now, if scientists in the simulation start studying how things work, then they'd only find the rules that the writers of the simulation had imposed. The rules for how materials reflect light wouldn't have anything to do with the rules for how hard they are, which in turn would have nothing to do with their thermal properties. All the measurements might be approximately the same as the values that would be measured for real materials built of electrons and protons and neutrons, but more careful experiments would disprove that theory, because they'd track how the kludged-together rules work in the simulation, not the actual real-world physics that the rules have been chosen to approximate. Every type of phenomenon would have it's own branch of science, and there wouldn't be the sort of beautiful fitting together of diverse fields that we see in our world. There simply wouldn't be any underlying structure.

I therefore make the prediction that either (a) we don't live in a simulation; or (b) the people running the simulation have access to mind-boggling levels of computational power.

Posted by DeLong at September 11, 2002 04:17 PM | Trackback

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This omits the possibility that the simulation is multi-resolution -- it generates behavior using an approximation to the "real" rules unless the error in the approximation would be observable; in that case it uses a more precise approximation.

Note that in cases like the two-slit single-electron experiment quantum mechanic behavior (such as interference) *differs* depending on observability, so perhaps the simulation detecting this isn't so much to ask.

Note also that this sort of multi-level approximation is used in finite element simulations which generate finer and finer meshes (locally) to keep the errors within bounds.

--jed

Posted by: Jed Harris on September 11, 2002 08:29 PM

So... if this is a simulation, it would have to be by someone very sophisticated with mind-boggling levels of computational power.

Well duh.

And don't philosophers have anything better to do than argue over the merits of The Matrix?

Posted by: on September 12, 2002 09:33 AM

John von Neumann observed that...

... the ever accelerating progress of technology... gives the appearance of approaching some essential singularity in the history of the race beyond which human affairs, as we know them, could not continue.

As a philosopher, I do not know what von Neumann means. We can only be part of the world we inherit and change by our mere presence. We might each wish to imagine we have dreamed the world to being or that we are merely part of a simulation, but there is really little reason for a sane person to believe so. What is the advantage? I am part of a world of assorted creatures and structures and generally enjoy noticing what is about and responding to same.

Posted by: on September 12, 2002 10:28 AM

If I were to be running such a simulation, I would probably do so by setting up cellular automata to do my work for me, in which case this reasoning would appear to be invalid.

Posted by: Daniel Davies on September 16, 2002 12:04 AM
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