With our kids it was a Friday thing. We'd sit down to an evening with some brie, french bread, and champagne or Martinelli's sparkling cider, whichever was most age appropriate. They saw the big people doing it and never figured out they weren't supposed to like it. They grossed out their friends from time to time, but used the brie as an entree to all the other delights of dining. It's not that they can't appreciate a burger, but there aren't many foods they won't try.
My favorite kid food story involved my wife's graduating class of eighth graders. They chose a Japanese restaurant for their group dinner and ALL of the kids bravely dove into the maguro, hamachi, ebi, tako, and saba that many of their parents wouldn't dream of trying.
Our future is assured as long as our kids will boldly try something as theoretically nasty as raw mackerel.

Being a Brie and Shishi Fan I have always been an innovator and experimenter.Love Lox,not into
extremely hot items.
Around here Chili is the dish of various varieties and coney's a chili hot dog combo loaded w cheese and onions.the tiny hot dog in the middle often causes great debate on size and origin.

Gosh, it looks like Brad DeLong's 12 year old is a conservative. Only Liberals eat French Brie--and yes, it does indeed taste like dead, rotted hyena. The kid's got taste. Delong is lucky he lives in California. In most other places in the United States, he might be arrested for child endangerment!

Being a Brie and Shishi Fan I have always been an innovator and experimenter.Love Lox,not into
extremely hot items.
Around here Chili is the dish of various varieties and coney's a chili hot dog combo loaded w cheese and onions.the tiny hot dog in the middle often causes great debate on size and origin.

Being a Brie and Shishi Fan I have always been an innovator and experimenter.Love Lox,not into
extremely hot items.
Around here Chili is the dish of various varieties and coney's a chili hot dog combo loaded w cheese and onions.the tiny hot dog in the middle often causes great debate on size and origin.

Being of a southern middle class background, I don't remember trying some things like brie until I was in my teenage years, usually to impress some girl with my sophistication. Hahaha. Maybe that's what it takes to get boys to try things other than meat cooked over flames, a girl.

Dave Thompson, I am just curious how you know what dead, rotted hyena tastes like?

“Dave Thompson, I am just curious how you know what dead, rotted hyena tastes like?”

I once sneaked into a Liberal white wine and brie cheese seminar. They ran out of brie cheese and had to substitute dead, rotted hyena meat. Nobody could tell the difference.

The difference is of course that rotted Hyena meat is not produced with the help of massive subsidy from the EU's Common Agricultural Policy, and therefore preferable on those grounds alone.

At least I don't think it is.

Brad, don't worry, I think the shift will come. The twelve-year year will start sneaking pieces of the stuff to his friends and daring them to eat "dead rotten hyena!" He'll be the one who knows what it tastes like and consume it fearlessly, just to impress them and in the process develop a taste for it--but before long, you'll be cursing the day you ever had him try it, for he'll end up clamoring for stuff like Epoisses and other raw-milk French cheeses as he tries to recreate what he'll then describe as his "excitement" of the first time he tried Brie. Anthony Bourdain tells a similar tale of his initiation into the world of squiggly, smelly, and delightful foods in the first chapter of Kitchen Confidential, when as a child his French uncle gave him a raw oyster.

I believe your story, David, but it does raise some concerns.

Is it cheaper to produce rotted hyena meat (RHM) than Brie? If so, and they are perfect substitutes, RHM producers might well come into the market. Then Brie prices drop and Brie producers demand huge subsidies from the French government.

Riots ensue, leading to the election of a government that caves in totally, possibly destroying the EU, or one that brutally suppresses the rioters, establishing a French version of fascism.

Either outcome might end peace in Western Europe and cause it to revert to its former semi-permanent state of war.

Maybe we shouldn't let this hyena thing get around.

"Dave Thompson, I am just curious how you know what dead, rotted hyena tastes like?"

Funny, I was wondering how DeLong Jr. knew what dead rotted hyena tasted like.

I didn't know that cheese eating was a political act. Now I know why the stickier the cheese, the more I like it :)

Professor DeLong: may I suggest you start with easy non-fermented raw cheeses and work your way up with the twelve year old? An other trick: prepare some grape and suggest the 12 year old to eat some right before or after the Brie.

Better yet, if you can find some, buy some apple or pear spread. Spread a thin layer of it on the bread the kid uses to eat the Brie. I was unconvinced by this Limburgese tradition when I first heard of it, but I am now a convert...

Brie is all fat - mostly saturated. Why should we bother with saturated rotted hyena fat? Far snootier to be trim and healthy. We can show off in other ways.

Fermented cheese is excellent for health in moderate quantities, especially for renewing the flora. (Besides, fat is important for several body functions.) The alternatives are much less tasty...

Since when has cheese become a way to show off??? Is showing off what life supposed to be about for some Americans???

I am really amazed at the level of national prejudice in this country. It's a shame. More than that it's shere dumbness. Fortunately, the virus has not corrupted all US citizens... (yet?)

By the way, cheese is not a French monopoly if that's what your prejudice is rooted in (David?). There is excellent cheese in England, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Greece etc.

I don't have that much respect for Jose Beauvais but he seems to be nothing more than the mirror image of this American stupidity. But if I was back on a wall having to make a choice, I would certainly eat cheese for the rest of my life that McDonald's burgers...

Or is it impossible for some to recognize any strengh to any other country than the US? Is the best Mexican food served at Taco Bell? Is pizza and American invention?

I'm loosing it again. Stop. I know I should not react to this, except that I have come to realize that it is more than idiocincratic. Racism has this amazing polymorphic capacity...

"Liberals eating Brie and sipping white wine" is one of the right wing talk show set's standard cliches. It's rather bizarre, but I guess it keeps one from actually needing to talk about anything of substance.

I haven't noticed any difference in the rate of consuption of fermented cheese by those who I would consider liberal vs. conservative at parties I've had (though I admit to a small sampling of the latter), The latter is, in my observation, more likely to drink the white wine with the soft cheese, even though, really, it goes much better with the red ;)

Now if they drink white wine with soft cheese, that explains everything! ;-)

Sorry to all real people for going overboard in my previous post... You must understand... :-7

<snobbery>From age two to four our kid ate Cosentino's bargain lox trimmings with camembert (no capitalization to avoid exercising Jean-Philippe) for afternoon snacks... But then she went into a phase where she didn't like it; now at age nine, Julia Child's recipe for homemade gravlox is popular again. As is Chenel Chevre, camembert, and of course brie, but not good Roquefort or Stilton. Go figure. I believe the real test for a mature palette is raw oysters. I was at least 17 before a plate of those could give me gustatory ecstacy...</snobbery>.

French Brie? As opposed to the Brie made somewhere other than, um, Brie? The Brie producers fought a long battle with the manufacturers of 'Somerset Brie' to protect their eponymous product, which is now classed by the EU alongside Feta, Sherry, Champagne and Cornish Clotted Cream, among others, as a Protected Designation of Origin: a product that comes solely from a specific area. Not that this is a gguarantee of quality, but it's a good rule of tthumb.

(And I only realise how much I miss the Oxford Cheese Shop now that I'm away from it...)

Raw oysters? My son (now 10) absolutely loves raw oysters, and has for years. When we lived in the Bay Area we used to drive up to the Hog Island Oyster Co. in Marshall, sit on a picnic table by Tomales Bay, and suck 'em down. His little sister will eat a few, but is less enthusiastic. They sell the oysters that grow together into clusters for a good price. He also loves sushi--I think all the kids in the neighborhood did because of the sushi boat place (Isobune on College Ave.) If you think about it, sushi is the perfect kid food--it's generally mild, colorful, interesting to look at, and there's lots of variety. It's only later that you learn that it's supposed to be gross.

I don't think about my kid's odd tastes with any sort of snobbishness. It's a total pain, because he won't eat chicken, he won't eat peanut butter, he won't eat most pasta dishes. Figuring out what's for dinner is always a hassle.

Give your son Camembert. It's much nicer than Brie.

Roquefort or Stilton no longer popular? Dumb fads. More for those of us who like blue cheeses, then.

IIRC there's a very nice California artisanal blue called Point Reyes. Or maybe Brad can pique his twelve-year-old's interest in cheeses with another California cheese, Humboldt Fog.

The National review Corner highlights this particular cheese which is probably named after the Catholic bishops who look the other way while their clergy molest children:

"Cheese Description:
Stinking Bishop

Description:
Stinking Bishop is a vegetarian cheese that comes from England, Gloucestershire. This cheese was created by Charles Martell. It is similar to Munster and is washed and rubbed with perry, an alcoholic drink made with a local variety of pear called "Stinking Bishop". It has a meaty flavour and the fat content is 48%. The affinage takes from six to eight weeks.

Country:
England

Milk:
cow milk

Texture:
hard

Fat content:
48 %"

My older boy eats more-or-less what and as an adult does (quite fond of most sushi), but doesn't like many cheeses and certainly not Brie. Younger boy is a picky eater (typical child stuck-in-rut tastes) but likes most cheeses, except not Brie. But he devours goat cheese, both the creamy soft ones (good w bagels and lox) and a goat Gouda I've seen around. Go figure. Maybe I'll try Brie again with apples or grapes.

A vegetarian cheese?

On a much more prosaic level, I have wondeful childhood memories eating Philadelphia cheese... And the holes in the Gouda still make me candidly happy... Go figure...

Gotta try the Point Reyes cheese. By the way, they have the best oysters farms in Point Reyes RP (I'm more used to rustic Johnson's by Drake's Estero). Their oysters are day-fresh and dirt cheap if you buy them in bulk. Bring your own vinegar, peper etc if you want to make the taster experience a little less rustic than it's meant to be...

P.S. I found it amusing that I have taken with relative serenity dozens of Europhobic posts from David... It's only when it came to cheese that the rage really took over me... :)

Call us unproductive parasites as long as you want, but don't you dare to insult our cheese!!!

'A vegetarian cheese?'

The enzyeme necessary to start cheesemaking, historically, comes from the stomach a year-old calf.

They can get it from vat-grown bacteria now, but most cheese is still made in the traditional cow-killin' way.

Yeah... I've been a vegetarian for about five years, and it pissed me off to learn that some of my favorite cheeses (such as Muenster. Yeah, I know it's tame and unadventurous) turned out to have enzymes.

Then, of course, there's the issue of eggs that have little specks in them and may or may not have been fertilized, and of course you can't tell 'til you've bought them.

Ah well :^)

Julian Elson

Talking about 'vegetarian cheeses':

Where I come from, Wallonia, there is a cheese called Herve (produced as you guessed in the village of... Herve). It's probably one of the stinkiest cheese on planet Earth. Kids use it to play tricks on bad adults (or at least we did...)

It's delicious but it smells like a hiker's foot. And for a good reason: it is suspected that the bacteria used for fermentation originally fell off from the monks' feet during one of the steps of the tradional preparation... This is the type of cheese for which I recommend most apple and pear spread.

Next time, Jean-Philippe will tell you how to prepare frog legs and esgargots... %-)

An American friend of mine was a foreign correspondent in Paris for a number of years, living there with his wife and two kids. One night at dinner the 11-year old boy complained that the cheese wasn't ripe enough. At that moment my friend realized his son was not American but French; they moved back to California the following year!

My kids here in Japan (2 and 5) not only eat Sushi happily, but also consume vast quantities of natto--a slimy concoction of fermented soybeans which smells remarkably like old, sweaty socks. I pride myself on being an omnivore but even I draw the line at natto. Perhaps it just depends on the age at which you are introduced to these "strange" foods?

“P.S. I found it amusing that I have taken with relative serenity dozens of Europhobic posts from David... It's only when it came to cheese that the rage really took over me... :)

Call us unproductive parasites as long as you want, but don't you dare to insult our cheese!!!”

Dear President George W. Bush,

It has come to my attention that the Europeans are exporting some very nasty smelling cheese. Should we perhaps add them to the axis of evil? Is it possible that we might wish to invade Europe before taking on Saddam Hussein? The latter only tortures and murders people, but the French are responsible for Brie cheese! There are even cruel American parents who offer such yucky stuff to their own children? Isn't this the worst case of child abuse that you’ve ever heard of? Have these heartless parents no shame?

May I suggest that the U.S. Congress grant you authority to combat this hideous threat? Do you require my services to lead the invasion of Europe? I patiently await your response. May God save this great country.

Your Fellow Texan,

David Thomson
Houston, Texas

Dear President Jaques Chirac:

I am not French but I was born in your wonderful country. I am writing to you to report a very disturbing trend in Texas, USA. Some neo-conservative elements down there are increasingly viewing our holy cheese as a strategic target, perhaps even a target for a nuclear attack to be followed by invasion and complete McDonaldization of France.

I am deeply dusturbed because this reminds of the times when Schnitzels were sold openly on Champs Elises. May I remind you that the majority of Americans did not elect Mr. Bush as president. Even more disturbing is the fact that this self-appointment "president" thinks he is above the American Constitution.

For example, he is moving swiftly to cancel all provisions guarenteeing free speech and he does not think that war requires congressional approval (but rather faithful stamping - same principal applies in his view for everything UN as you may have noticed lately...)

Therefore I urge you to schedule the bombardment of key target such as W's ranch and the White House with your great nation's stinckiest cheese. Please do NOT go as far as considering Herve cheese as we want to be able to come in after their doubtless surrender (most Texans have no idea what cheese is about, so I suspect their immunitary defenses should be quickly overwhelmed by the power of our Holy Bacteria.)

I urge you, Mr. President, not to wait too long to act, as cheesephobia may soon spread beyond Texas. Please recall that France helped the United States to acquire its independence and that our Constitutions were both drafted in a era of inter-continental intellectual exchange. Nowadays, America may look to you as a wild barbarian continent, but I trust, and urge you to believe, that the resistance to ultra-capitalism and neo-fascism is alive and well (albeit of relatively small size I must admit - but conveniently most of our allies can be met here at Berkeley. The most remote units are a short hour drive over in Marin County.)

Please let me know via email any instruction you would have for us. Don't forget to crypt the message using Cheese names unknown to most Americans, or at least Texans.

Yours in Cheese,

Jean-Philippe Stijns
Berkeley, Californie

Free people of Santa Cruz and Austin, Texas, please stop filling my email inbox. I hereby publicly acknowledge the existence of a democratic movement in your cities.

It has also come to my attention that a group of 10 students at Harvard U are in the process of forming SBCA (Students for Balanced Criticism of the Administration.) They wish, however, to clearly dissociate themselves from my opinions. They apparently think that in a state of emergency, explicit criticism of the Presidentcy is counter-productive and risks allienating the very few people bought to their cause.

With apologies,
Jean-Philippe Stijns

What actually DOES resemble dead, rotted hyena at this point is the discussion thread that began with "Why Doesn't the Administration have an Economic Policy?"

I have good and bad news from the front:

The good news: President Chirac has asked me to relay his warmest words of encouragement to the fledging democratic movement in the United States.

The bad news now: he does not think that regime change is a viable alternative in the current state of the American society. Rather he advocates for continued subversion of Texans through cheeses exports, first in liberal communities, and then hopefully into so-called centrist strong-holds.

>>Why Doesn't the Administration have an Economic Policy?<<

Bruce: the very idea that the Administration needs an economic policy is so obviously liberal that it is not worth debating.

I should have known that posters here could argue about brie. Reminds me of something I once heard Robert Lucas say (actually the only thing I ever heard Lucas say). During a break at a conference in Cambridge MA looking at the snacks of, naturally, white wine and brie he said, and I quote "Where's da Beer ?".

I think the posters are not aware that there is an actual authentic trade regulation issue here. It is not legal to import brie or camembert into the USA without baking it in a oven to sterilize it. This is a "health" regulation like growth hormones in beaf or genetically modified plants except for one detail, the health issue is authentic. people who eat unbaked brie get toxoplasmosis. It is considered highly abnormal in France to be toxoplasmosis sero-negative to the extent that I know someone who was injected with live toxoplasmosis by French doctors as a sort of vaccine.

Now as to gross slimy squiggly cheeses. Nothing yet posted comes close to a cheese I saw and smelled (but did not taste) in Sardinia. It was called formaggio con i vermi, that is, cheese with maggots. This is not a figure of speach. The delicacy contains actual live maggots (note the squiggly above is not a figure of speach either).

Again a legal issue related to consumer sovereignty -- that cheese is illegal even in Italy (but hey illegal in Italy doesn't mean impossible to buy).